i2p.www/www.i2p2/pages/meeting93.html

{% extends "_layout.html" %}
{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 93{% endblock %}
{% block content %}<div class="irclog">
<p>21:02:08 &lt;duck&gt; Tue Jun  8 21:02:08 UTC 2004</p>
<p>21:02:21 &lt;duck&gt; meeting time</p>
<p>21:02:33 &lt;duck&gt; writeup is at http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-June/000268.html</p>
<p>21:02:39 &lt;duck&gt; but I did make a mistake in the numbering</p>
<p>21:02:45 &lt;duck&gt; so the first item 5 will be skipped</p>
<p>21:02:53 &lt;hypercubus&gt; yay!</p>
<p>21:03:03  * duck puts some ice in his beer</p>
<p>21:03:14  * mihi 'd rename first #5 to #4 ;)</p>
<p>21:03:27 &lt;hypercubus&gt; nah, let's just have two item 4's next week ;-)</p>
<p>21:03:37  * duck renames 'hypercubus' to 'mihi'</p>
<p>21:03:48 &lt;hypercubus&gt; yay!</p>
<p>21:03:49 &lt;duck&gt; ok</p>
<p>21:03:53 &lt;duck&gt; * 1) libsam</p>
<p>21:04:02 &lt;duck&gt; is there a Nightblade in the channel?</p>
<p>21:04:39 &lt;duck&gt; (idle     : 0 days 0 hours 0 mins 58 secs)</p>
<p>21:05:03 &lt;hypercubus&gt; ;-)</p>
<p>21:05:53  * duck reclaims the microphone</p>
<p>21:06:15 &lt;duck&gt; Nightblade wrote a SAM lib for C / C++</p>
<p>21:06:23 &lt;duck&gt; it compiles for me.. but that is all I can say :)</p>
<p>21:06:37 &lt;mihi&gt; no test cases? ;)</p>
<p>21:07:06 &lt;duck&gt; if there are any rFfreebsd users Nightblade might be interested in you</p>
<p>21:07:08 &lt;ugha_node&gt; The strstr calls really annoyed me in the code. ;)</p>
<p>21:07:27 &lt;ugha_node&gt; duck: What's a rFfreebsd?</p>
<p>21:07:42 &lt;duck&gt; how I did type freebsd</p>
<p>21:08:00 &lt;mihi&gt; rm -rF freebsd?</p>
<p>21:08:29 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Too bad -F doesn't work with rm.</p>
<p>21:08:30 &lt;duck&gt; ugha_node: its bsd licensed; so fix it</p>
<p>21:08:41 &lt;fvw&gt; sounds sane to me :). Alas I uninstalled my last freebsd box a while back. I </p>
<p>                have accounts on other peoples' boxes though, and am willing to run testcases.</p>
<p>21:08:43 &lt;ugha_node&gt; duck: I might. :)</p>
<p>21:08:50 &lt;duck&gt; (damn BSD hippies)</p>
<p>21:09:09 &lt;duck&gt; oh, nice and short frank</p>
<p>21:09:17 &lt;duck&gt; mo libsam comments?</p>
<p>21:09:49 &lt;duck&gt; fvw: I guess Nightblade will contact you if he has a need</p>
<p>21:09:50  * fvw grumbles at perfectly sane unix behaviour for killing his irc client.</p>
<p>21:10:02 &lt;duck&gt; but since his email was a week old be might have found something</p>
<p>21:10:17 &lt;mihi&gt; fvw: ?</p>
<p>21:10:24 &lt;fvw&gt; yeah, if someone wanted to take me up on my offer I sort of missed that. Feel </p>
<p>                free to send email or something.</p>
<p>21:10:42  * duck hops to #2</p>
<p>21:10:46 &lt;hypercubus&gt; uhm, to where? ;-)</p>
<p>21:10:54 &lt;duck&gt; 2) browse i2p and normal web with one browser</p>
<p>21:10:57 &lt;fvw&gt; fresh install, haven't yet told my zsh not to hup stuff in the bacgrkground. </p>
<p>                &lt;/offtopic&gt;</p>

<p>21:11:09 &lt;fvw&gt; hypercubus: I'm on the public mailinglist user list I think. fvw.i2p@var.cx</p>
<p>21:12:11 &lt;duck&gt; there was some stuff about adding all TLDs to your brower proxy ignore list</p>
<p>21:12:23 &lt;fvw&gt; does that require discussion? I think it was pretty much handled on the </p>
<p>                mailinglist.</p>
<p>21:12:24 &lt;duck&gt; I think it is a dirty hack</p>
<p>21:12:36 &lt;fvw&gt; yes, that was mentioned. Welcome back.</p>
<p>21:12:47 &lt;duck&gt; fvw: I didnt read the thread :)</p>
<p>21:13:12 &lt;duck&gt; okay, if you dont want to discuss it, move to #3</p>
<p>21:13:19 &lt;duck&gt; * 3) chat channel</p>
<p>21:13:23 &lt;hypercubus&gt; cervantes' script works perfectly on Konqueror 3.2.2, Firefox 0.8, and </p>
<p>                       Opera 7.51, all for Gentoo w/KDE 3.2.2</p>
<p>21:13:39  * mihi places a flag on #4</p>
<p>21:13:55 &lt;duck&gt; #i2p-chat is an alternative channel here for offtopic chat and light support</p>
<p>21:14:08 &lt;duck&gt; I dont know who did regg it</p>
<p>21:14:12 &lt;hypercubus&gt; i did</p>
<p>21:14:17 &lt;duck&gt; so better be careful :)</p>
<p>21:14:22 &lt;fvw&gt; ehm, there is no #4, just two #5's :)</p>
<p>21:14:33 &lt;hypercubus&gt; i'll be lucky if i can remember the password when i need it ;-)</p>
<p>21:14:33 &lt;mihi&gt; [22:27] -ChanServ-      Channel: #i2p-chat</p>
<p>21:14:33 &lt;mihi&gt; [22:27] -ChanServ-      Contact: hypercubus &lt;&lt;ONLINE &gt;&gt;</p>

<p>21:14:33 &lt;mihi&gt; [22:27] -ChanServ-    Alternate: cervantes &lt;&lt;ONLINE &gt;&gt;</p>
<p>21:14:37 &lt;mihi&gt; [22:27] -ChanServ-   Registered: 4 days (0h 2m 41s) ago</p>
<p>21:15:12 &lt;hypercubus&gt; i gave a few trusted peeps op powers for whenver i'm not around and </p>
<p>                       there's trouble</p>
<p>21:15:24 &lt;duck&gt; sounds good</p>
<p>21:15:39 &lt;duck&gt; it might be a bit overkill</p>
<p>21:15:51 &lt;hypercubus&gt; you never know on IRC ;-)</p>
<p>21:15:55 &lt;duck&gt; but after this protogirl did join here I thought it would be good to clean up </p>
<p>                 this chan</p>
<p>21:16:03 &lt;hypercubus&gt; heh</p>
<p>21:16:27 &lt;hypercubus&gt; we'll need it for sure sometime in the next few months anyhow</p>
<p>21:16:34 &lt;duck&gt; jups</p>
<p>21:16:48 &lt;duck&gt; and then the freenode ppl will kick us out </p>
<p>21:16:55 &lt;hypercubus&gt; ;-)</p>
<p>21:17:13 &lt;duck&gt; they dont like anything that isnt written in their kampf</p>
<p>21:17:16 &lt;duck&gt; err</p>
<p>21:17:44  * duck moves to $nextitem and triggers mihi's breakpoint</p>
<p>21:17:47 &lt;hypercubus&gt; i figured tying the new channel in with support would legitimize it for </p>
<p>                       freenode</p>
<p>21:18:47 &lt;duck&gt; hypercubus: you might be surprised</p>
<p>21:19:04 &lt;hypercubus&gt; *cough* i admittedly didn't read all the policies...</p>
<p>21:19:24 &lt;duck&gt; it is russian roullete</p>
<p>21:19:39 &lt;hypercubus&gt; hmm, didn't think it would be quite that dire</p>
<p>21:19:52  * duck is being negative</p>
<p>21:19:54 &lt;hypercubus&gt; well i'll look into what we can do</p>
<p>21:20:09 &lt;fvw&gt; sorry, I must have missed something. Why would freenode kick us off?</p>
<p>21:20:21  * duck looks at the timeout counter for mihi's breakpoint</p>
<p>21:20:32 &lt;duck&gt; fvw: they focus on development channels</p>
<p>21:20:35 &lt;mihi&gt; ?</p>
<p>21:20:53 &lt;mihi&gt; duck: the breakpoint triggers on /^4).*/</p>
<p>21:21:01 &lt;duck&gt; mihi: but there is no #4</p>
<p>21:21:06 &lt;fvw&gt; so? i2p is soo alpha that right now even support is development.</p>
<p>21:21:11 &lt;fvw&gt; (and no, you may not quote me on that)</p>
<p>21:21:36 &lt;duck&gt; fvw: you might not be familiar with the types of discussion that did happen </p>
<p>                 on IIP</p>
<p>21:21:38 &lt;hypercubus&gt; yeah but we have *2* channels for it</p>
<p>21:21:45 &lt;duck&gt; and which will likely happen in #i2p channels</p>
<p>21:22:04 &lt;duck&gt; I am pretty sure that freenode does not appreciate it.</p>
<p>21:22:10 &lt;Nightblade&gt; i'm here now</p>
<p>21:22:49 &lt;hypercubus&gt; we'll donate a margarita machine to them or something</p>
<p>21:22:49 &lt;mihi&gt; duck: what do you refer to? the floods? or #cl? or what?</p>
<p>21:23:08 &lt;fvw&gt; discussions on IIP or discussions on #iip? I've never seen anything apart from </p>
<p>                devel and support on #iip. And discussions on IIP would move to I2P, not </p>
<p>                #i2p@freenode.</p>
<p>21:23:09 &lt;duck&gt; all kinds of non political correct talk</p>
<p>21:23:36 &lt;fvw&gt; there's margarita machines? Ooh, me want.</p>
<p>21:23:54 &lt;duck&gt; oh well</p>
<p>21:24:38 &lt;hypercubus&gt; shall we revisit 2)?</p>
<p>21:24:58 &lt;duck&gt; hypercubus: what do you have to add about the browser proxy?</p>
<p>21:25:18 &lt;hypercubus&gt; oops, number 1... since nightblade just graced us with his presence ;-)</p>
<p>21:25:33 &lt;duck&gt; Nightblade: we took the freedom to 'discuss' libsam</p>
<p>21:25:42 &lt;Nightblade&gt; Ok, i'll say a few lines</p>
<p>21:25:48 &lt;hypercubus&gt; but yeah i had something that wasn't brought up on the list about the </p>
<p>                       browser thing too now that i think about it</p>
<p>21:25:56 &lt;duck&gt; Nightblade: fvw told us that he might be able to help with some freebsd </p>
<p>                 testing</p>
<p>21:26:20 &lt;fvw&gt; I don't have a freebsd machine anymore but I have accounts on freebsd </p>
<p>                machines, give me test cases and I'd be happy to run them.</p>
<p>21:27:02 &lt;Nightblade&gt; I have started working on a C++ dht, which uses Libsam (C).  At this </p>
<p>                       point I have not gotten especially far although I've been working a lot </p>
<p>                       on it.  right now nodes in the dht can "ping" each other through a sam </p>
<p>                       data message</p>
<p>21:27:09 &lt;Nightblade&gt; in the process i found a couple minor bugs in libsam</p>
<p>21:27:18 &lt;Nightblade&gt; which i will post a new version of sometime in the future</p>
<p>21:27:51 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Nightblade: Could you please remove those 'strstr' calls from libsam? :)</p>
<p>21:27:52 &lt;Nightblade&gt; the test case is: try to compile it and report the errors to me</p>
<p>21:28:01 &lt;Nightblade&gt; what is wrong with strstr</p>
<p>21:28:21 &lt;ugha_node&gt; It's not meant to be used instead of strcmp.</p>
<p>21:28:38 &lt;Nightblade&gt; oh yeah, also I am going to port libsam to windows, but that is not in </p>
<p>                       any near future</p>
<p>21:29:07 &lt;Nightblade&gt; is there anything wrong with the way i am using it, besides aesthetics?</p>
<p>21:29:15 &lt;Nightblade&gt; you can send me changes or tell me what you'd rather do</p>
<p>21:29:19 &lt;Nightblade&gt; that just seemed the easiest way</p>
<p>21:29:21 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Nightblade: I didn't notice any.</p>
<p>21:29:32 &lt;fvw&gt; strcmp is more efficient than strstr ofcourse.</p>
<p>21:29:36 &lt;ugha_node&gt; But I just skimmed through it.</p>
<p>21:30:20 &lt;ugha_node&gt; fvw: You can occasionally exploit stuff which uses strstr instead of </p>
<p>                      strcmp, but that's not the case.</p>
<p>21:31:22 &lt;Nightblade&gt; yeah now i see some places where i can change it</p>
<p>21:31:28 &lt;fvw&gt; that too, but I'm assuming you'd have noted that. Well, actually, you'd have </p>
<p>                to use strncmp to prevent those exploits. But that's besides the point.</p>
<p>21:31:31 &lt;Nightblade&gt; i don't remember why i did it that way</p>
<p>21:31:57 &lt;ugha_node&gt; fvw: I agree.</p>
<p>21:32:27 &lt;Nightblade&gt; oh now i remember why</p>
<p>21:32:40 &lt;Nightblade&gt; it is a lazy way of not having to figure the length for strncmp</p>
<p>21:32:49 &lt;duck&gt; heh</p>
<p>21:32:52 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Nightblade: Heheh.</p>
<p>21:33:01 &lt;fvw&gt; use min(strlen(foo), sizeof(*foo))</p>
<p>21:33:04 &lt;hypercubus&gt; shall the spanking commence?</p>
<p>21:33:15 &lt;fvw&gt; I thought the oral sex came first? *ducks*</p>
<p>21:33:32 &lt;fvw&gt; right, next point I think. Hypercube had a comment about proxying?</p>
<p>21:33:38 &lt;hypercubus&gt; heh</p>
<p>21:33:54 &lt;duck&gt; bring it on!</p>
<p>21:34:03 &lt;Nightblade&gt; i will make the changes for the next version - change some of them at </p>
<p>                       least</p>
<p>21:34:25 &lt;hypercubus&gt; ok, well this had been discussed briefly in channel a few weeks back, </p>
<p>                       but i think it bears revisiting</p>
<p>21:34:48 &lt;deer&gt; * Sugadude volunteers to perform the oral sex.</p>
<p>21:34:59 &lt;hypercubus&gt; rather than adding TLD's to your browser's block list, or using the </p>
<p>                       proxy script, there's a third way</p>
<p>21:35:29 &lt;hypercubus&gt; which shouldn't have the same drawbacks as the other two approaches </p>
<p>                       anonymity-wise</p>
<p>21:36:17 &lt;fvw&gt; which I'll tell you for the cheap cheap price of $29.99? Spill it already!</p>
<p>21:36:27 &lt;hypercubus&gt; and that would be to have the eeproxy re-write incoming html pages to </p>
<p>                       embed the page in a frameset... </p>
<p>21:36:58 &lt;hypercubus&gt; the main frame would contain the requested HTTP content, the other </p>
<p>                       frame would serve as a control bar</p>
<p>21:37:13 &lt;hypercubus&gt; and would allow you to turn on/off proxying at will</p>
<p>21:37:40 &lt;hypercubus&gt; and will also alert you, perhaps via colored borders or some other kind </p>
<p>                       of alert, that you're browsing non-anonymously</p>
<p>21:37:54 &lt;fvw&gt; how are you going to prevent an i2p site (with javascript etc) from turning </p>
<p>                off anonimity?</p>
<p>21:37:59  * duck tries to apply jrandom-skill-level-of tolerance</p>
<p>21:37:59 &lt;hypercubus&gt; or that a link in an eepsite page leads to the RealWeb(tm)</p>
<p>21:38:04 &lt;duck&gt; cool! make it!</p>
<p>21:38:16 &lt;fvw&gt; you'll still have to do something fproxy-like, or make something </p>
<p>                non-browser-controlled for switching.</p>
<p>21:38:29 &lt;ugha_node&gt; fvw: Right.</p>
<p>21:39:10 &lt;hypercubus&gt; that's why i'm throwing this out here again, perhaps someone might have</p>
<p>                        some ideas about how to secure this</p>
<p>21:39:31 &lt;hypercubus&gt; but imo this is something that will be sorely needed for most i2p end </p>
<p>                       usrers</p>
<p>21:39:33 &lt;hypercubus&gt; *users</p>
<p>21:40:04 &lt;hypercubus&gt; because the TLD/proxy script/dedicated browser approaches are too much </p>
<p>                       to ask of your general net user</p>
<p>21:40:29 &lt;fvw&gt; In the long run, I think an fproxy workalike is the best idea. But that's </p>
<p>                definately not a priority imho, and I don't actually think browsing sites will </p>
<p>                be the i2p killer app.</p>
<p>21:40:42 &lt;Sonium&gt; What is the netDb anyway?</p>
<p>21:40:59 &lt;duck&gt; Sonium: database of known routers</p>
<p>21:41:10 &lt;hypercubus&gt; fproxy is too cumbersome for most users</p>
<p>21:41:32 &lt;Sonium&gt; doesn't such a database compromise annonymity?</p>
<p>21:41:39 &lt;hypercubus&gt; imo it's part of the reason freenet never caught on in the non-dev </p>
<p>                       community</p>
<p>21:41:41 &lt;fvw&gt; hypercube: not necessarily. proxy autoconfiguragion ("pac") can make it as </p>
<p>                simple as filling in a single value in your browser config. I think we </p>
<p>                shouldn't underestimate the fact that in the foreseeable future, all the i2p </p>
<p>                users will be at least slightly clueful computer-wise. (all evidence on </p>
<p>                freenet-support notwithstanding)</p>
<p>21:42:00 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Sonium: No, 'bad guys' could collect that information manually anyway.</p>
<p>21:42:21 &lt;Sonium&gt; but if NetDb is down i2p is down, right?</p>
<p>21:42:29 &lt;fvw&gt; hypercubus: Not really, I think the fact that it hasn't worked at all since </p>
<p>                early 0.5 is more to blame for that. &lt;/offtopic time="once again"&gt;</p>

<p>21:42:44 &lt;fvw&gt; Sonium: you can have more than one netdb (anyone can run one)</p>
<p>21:42:58 &lt;hypercubus&gt; we already have pac, and even though it works spectacularly from a tech </p>
<p>                       standpoint, realistically it's not going to protect the anonymity of </p>
<p>                       the avg. jog</p>
<p>21:43:03 &lt;hypercubus&gt; *avg. joe</p>
<p>21:43:22 &lt;ugha_node&gt; fvw: Err.. Every router has its own netDb.</p>
<p>21:43:42 &lt;duck&gt; ok. I am about to pass out. be sure to *baff* the meeting closed after you </p>
<p>                 are done</p>
<p>21:43:52 &lt;ugha_node&gt; I2P has no central dependencies anymore.</p>
<p>21:44:07 &lt;hypercubus&gt; ok, well i just wanted to get this idea formally in the logs ;-)</p>
<p>21:44:30 &lt;fvw&gt; ugha_node: ok, a published netdb then. I don't actually run a node (yet), I'm </p>
<p>                not entirely up with the terminology.</p>
<p>21:44:34 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Hmm. Didn't mihi want to say something?</p>
<p>21:45:05  * fvw feeds duck coffee-flavoured chocolate to keep him up and running a little bit </p>
<p>          longer.</p>
<p>21:45:07 &lt;mihi&gt; no :)</p>
<p>21:45:21 &lt;mihi&gt; is duck a network device? ;)</p>
<p>21:45:25 &lt;ugha_node&gt; mihi: Btw, are you going to take the window size increase bounty?</p>
<p>21:45:28  * fvw feeds duck alcohol-flavoured chocolate to shut him down indefinately.</p>
<p>21:45:30 &lt;hypercubus&gt; in swedish</p>
<p>21:45:52 &lt;mihi&gt; ugha_node: what bounty?</p>
<p>21:46:00 &lt;hypercubus&gt; okay, then on to 5), rant-a-rama? ;-)</p>
<p>21:46:13 &lt;ugha_node&gt; mihi: http://www.i2p.net/node/view/224</p>
<p>21:46:27  * duck eats some of fvw's chocolate</p>
<p>21:47:16 &lt;mihi&gt; ugha_node: definitely no; sorry</p>
<p>21:47:36 &lt;ugha_node&gt; mihi: Uh, okay. :(</p>
<p>21:48:33  * mihi tried to hack up the "old" streaming api some time ago, but that one was too </p>
<p>          buggy...</p>
<p>21:48:53 &lt;mihi&gt; but it would imho be easier to fix that one instead of fixing mine...</p>
<p>21:49:21 &lt;ugha_node&gt; Heh.</p>
<p>21:49:42 &lt;hypercubus&gt; so modest</p>
<p>21:49:46 &lt;mihi&gt; since it already has some (broken) "reordering" support in it</p>
<p>21:50:49 &lt;Sonium&gt; is there a way to ask deer how many people are on the i2p-#i2p channel?</p>
<p>21:51:01 &lt;duck&gt; no</p>
<p>21:51:08 &lt;hypercubus&gt; nope, but i can add that to bogobot</p>
<p>21:51:08 &lt;Sonium&gt; :/</p>
<p>21:51:11 &lt;Nightblade&gt; !list</p>
<p>21:51:13 &lt;deer&gt; &lt;duck&gt; 10 ppl</p>
<p>21:51:13 &lt;hypercubus&gt; after i finish the installer ;-)</p>
<p>21:51:24 &lt;Sonium&gt; !list</p>
<p>21:51:32 &lt;Sonium&gt; o_O</p>
<p>21:51:35 &lt;mihi&gt; Sonium ;)</p>
<p>21:51:38 &lt;ugha_node&gt; This is not an fserv channel!</p>
<p>21:51:39 &lt;Sonium&gt; that was a trick!</p>
<p>21:51:40 &lt;ugha_node&gt; :)</p>
<p>21:51:41 &lt;hypercubus&gt; should be !who</p>
<p>21:51:44 &lt;deer&gt; &lt;duck&gt; ant duck identiguy Pseudonym ugha2p bogobot hirvox jrandom Sugadude </p>
<p>                 unknown</p>
<p>21:51:48 &lt;cervantes&gt; oop missed the meeting</p>
<p>21:51:57 &lt;ugha_node&gt; !list</p>
<p>21:52:01 &lt;Nightblade&gt; !who</p>
<p>21:52:11 &lt;deer&gt; &lt;duck&gt; !who-your-mom</p>
<p>21:52:17 &lt;mihi&gt; !who !has !the !list ?</p>
<p>21:52:21 &lt;fvw&gt; !yesletsallspamthechannelwithinoperativecommands</p>
<p>21:52:33 &lt;Nightblade&gt; !ban fvw!*@*</p>
<p>21:52:42 &lt;mihi&gt; !ban *!*@*</p>
<p>21:52:50 &lt;hypercubus&gt; i sense a gavel coming down</p>
<p>21:52:51 &lt;duck&gt; sounds like a good time to close it down</p>
<p>21:52:55 &lt;Sonium&gt; btw, you should also implement an !8 command like chanserv has</p>
<p>21:52:59 &lt;fvw&gt; right, now we have that settled, let's clo.. yes. that.</p>
<p>21:53:00  * hypercubus is psychic</p>
<p>21:53:05 &lt;duck&gt; *BAFF*</p>
<p>21:53:11 &lt;Nightblade&gt; !baff</p>
<p>21:53:12 &lt;hypercubus&gt; my hair, my hair</p>
<p>21:53:24  * fvw points at hypercube and laughs. Your hair! Your hair!</p>
</div>
{% endblock %}