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<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 4</h3>
<div class="irclog">
Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
<p>
<p>--- Log opened Tue Jun 11 22:52:16 2002
<p>22:55 &lt; logger&gt; logging started
<p>22:55 &lt;@mids&gt; already?
<p>22:55 &lt; logger&gt; yes :)
<p>22:55 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+v logger] by mids
<p>23:23 &lt; I&gt; 23:23 @933.23
<p>23:23 &lt; I&gt; heh, evil time
<p>--- Day changed Wed Jun 12 2002
<p>00:09 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+oo UserX nop] by mids
<p>00:39 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o codeshark] by nop
<p>00:39 &lt;@mids&gt; hey codeshark 
<p>00:39 &lt;@codeshark&gt; hey
<p>00:41 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; hi, good night everybody
<p>00:41 &lt;@nop&gt; night
<p>00:49 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; hi
<p>00:49 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; did I miss the meeting yet?
<p>00:50 &lt;@mids&gt; Tue Jun 11 22:50:18 UTC 2002
<p>00:50 &lt;@mids&gt; almost
<p>00:50 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; just in time :)
<p>00:55 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; 4 minutes 20 seconds ;)
<p>00:56 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>00:57 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; sorry, just getting antsy :)
<p>00:58 &lt;@nop&gt; hehe
<p>00:59 &lt;@mids&gt; lets get started
<p>00:59 &lt;@mids&gt; first of all I want to congratulate UnDeRToW, he passed his exams
<p>01:00 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; 0
<p>01:00 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; :)
<p>01:00 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; :)
<p>01:00 &lt;@nop&gt; awesome
<p>01:00 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; it has begun :P
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; all the important docs are on http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
<p>01:00 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; err, my count down ended :P
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; this is the 4th meeting
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; it is public, and unmoderated as long as it isnt chaotic
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; if it become moderated, message an operator or somebody with voice, the line that you want to say
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; welcome :)
<p>01:01 &lt;@nop&gt; welcome all
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; a logfile is recorded
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; and available for everybody
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; including for those who are too late
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:02 &lt;@mids&gt; got something to add nop ?
<p>01:02 &lt;@nop&gt; thnx you for all coming
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; and contributing to IIP as a user/tester, developer, or otherwise
<p>01:03 &lt;@codeshark&gt; i'm here
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; let's see what's on the agenda for today
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 1) Welcome
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 2) Network / Channel policies
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 3) Website
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 4) Documentation status
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; A) Questions?
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; B) Next meeting
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; attition: something about iip 1.1
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; (forgot to add that)
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:04 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:04 &lt;@nop&gt; 2 network / channel policies
<p>01:04 &lt;@nop&gt; mids if you would please
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; sure
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; we had something happening in #anonymous
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; I kind of missed it
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; but thanks to my big brother logging, I got to see it later
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; there was a little incident that showed us the need for some policies
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; since this network is going to become more serious
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; with more people attending
<p>01:05 &lt;@nop&gt; may I add something
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; the risk of possible conflicts is always there
<p>01:05 &lt;@nop&gt; ?
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; sure
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; The definitive goal of IIP
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; is to allow freedom of speech
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; and to fight censorship and oppression
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; now we all share this common goal
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; assuming
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; so there are moderators
<p>01:06 &lt;@nop&gt; for channels
<p>01:07 &lt;@nop&gt; which gives us a sense of power, but really, is very minimal control, banning anonymity is not exactly easy
<p>01:07 &lt;@nop&gt; but the purpose is to make sure everyone is not inhibited by their speech
<p>01:07 &lt;@nop&gt; and can say what they would like to say
<p>01:07 &lt;@mids&gt; as you maybe all know
<p>01:07 &lt;@nop&gt; so keeping this in mind
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; continue
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; 'we' dont often know what is going on on the network
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; exept for the public channels
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; inclusing #anonymous, but also #iip and #help
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; maybe I forgot more official channels, if so
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; inform me
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; because those channels kindof determine the public look of IIP, we need to get some rules done
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; why?
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; 2 reasons
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; tell the users what the operators can do
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; and visa versa
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; normally, on IIP, every channel
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; should be seen as a sovereign country
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; since there is almost none network wide power
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; every channel got to have its own rules
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; which can differ from channel to channel
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; if you have a channel names #sailing
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; we cant do nothing there
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; even if we hate the boat that you like to sail with :)
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; anyway
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; I want to propose some rules
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; 3 categories
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; 1) network wide
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; 2) #anonymous
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; 3) other official channels
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; for all other channels, we have no power as IIP team
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; except for the network rules
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; any questions so far?
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; nope?
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; great
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; I have thought of these 3 rules for the whole network:
<p>01:12 &lt; ellison&gt; seems to me that #iip should be protected as well
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; - no flooding
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; - no spamming
<p>01:13 &lt; ellison&gt; oh, 3)  other protected channels
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; - no acts that endanger the existance of IIP
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison: yes?
<p>01:13 &lt; ellison&gt; nevermind, 'scuse me
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; np
<p>01:13 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; acts that endanger the existance of IIP?  please clarify
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; sure
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; that is a pretty broad subject
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; but whatever happens here.. we shouldnt risk the continuity of IIP
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; some posibilities:
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; ddos attacks
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; child porn
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; terrorist cells etc
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; if we know about those things
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; we have to forbid them
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; because countries will attack us if we support such things
<p>01:15 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; but how we control that?
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; good question
<p>01:16 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; we cant spy other users
<p>01:16 &lt;@mids&gt; sure
<p>01:16 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; we shouldn't atleast
<p>01:16 &lt; ellison&gt; ddos is a separate matter from the rest
<p>01:16 &lt;@mids&gt; but if such happens, without us knowing?
<p>01:16 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison: yes, correct.. ddos is more flooding
<p>01:16 &lt; ellison&gt; for child porn, terrorist cells, money laundering and other statust bugaboos, we should insist on proof from the entity complaining or threatening to shut down IIP
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; so if an entity comes with evidence about activity x
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; evidence that they have to prove that it is the specific user
<p>01:18 &lt; ellison&gt; yup
<p>01:19 &lt;@mids&gt; then we can nuke his trent accounts, jupe his nick etc
<p>01:19 &lt; ellison&gt; if the entity complaining has no power to harm IIP, we ignore them
<p>01:19 &lt;@mids&gt; but such claims should always be verified
<p>01:19 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; if IIP is truly anonymous, how could that be proven and what steps could be taken to stop the person is question
<p>01:19 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison: exactly
<p>01:20 &lt; ellison&gt; if they can harm IIP, we insist on proof
<p>01:20 &lt;@mids&gt; BluePaperBoy: we can deal with nyms, not with real persons
<p>01:20 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; mids: but then they can merely change their IIP identity and continue
<p>01:20 &lt; ellison&gt; if they meet the proof requirements, we delete their Trent accounts as you said, and then send a report to the entity which complained
<p>01:21 &lt; ellison&gt; BPB: yeah, that's the beauty of a pseudoanonymous system...
<p>01:21 &lt;@mids&gt; for the sake of the common IIP wealth, such complaints should be globally announced I think
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; agreed
<p>01:22 &lt; ellison&gt; BPB: say some soldiers in afghanistan discovered a computer with IIP logs which proved that terrorists were using IIP to communicate ebtween their cells
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; nop: what is the official email address for such things?
<p>01:22 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; put on the website?
<p>01:22 &lt; ellison&gt; that would consistute proof, I think
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; iip@invisiblenet.net
<p>01:23 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; ellison: be we would no not who it was or how to stop them
<p>01:23 &lt; ellison&gt; we'd have their nym names
<p>01:23 &lt; ellison&gt; and we could just delete their records from Trent (assuming they used Trent)
<p>01:23 &lt;@mids&gt; okay, governments and other entities should email their proof of misusage (pgp signed & encrypted ofcourse) to iip@invisiblenet.net
<p>01:23 &lt; ellison&gt; heh
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; we still have very little power
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; to stop them
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; and the most we can do
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; is prohibit them from using trent
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; etc
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; at least under that nym
<p>01:24 &lt;@mids&gt; ofcourse we will do that
<p>01:24 &lt;@mids&gt; whatever is in our power
<p>01:24 &lt; ellison&gt; (this inability to exert controlling censorship is part of the good design of IIP, IMHO)
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; it only gets better with age
<p>01:25 &lt;@UserX&gt; what do we do if entities try and demand logging?
<p>01:25 &lt;@mids&gt; UserX: they may join channels
<p>01:25 &lt; ellison&gt; remove IIP servers from their jurisdiction
<p>01:25 &lt;@mids&gt; and log all traffic
<p>01:25 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; so IIP'll do like most governments and "officially condemn"
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; try being key operative word
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; the most logging that is taking place
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; is the irc clients
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; but the big concern is coercing or forcing a user to log
<p>01:27 &lt;@mids&gt; everybody should understand that he/she acts here as a nym
<p>01:28 &lt;@mids&gt; and every relationshop between his/her real identify and the nym is a possible danger on his anon/pseudo nymity
<p>01:29 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; What about bad mouthing IIP and convincing people to leave/stop supporting...would that be considered "acts that endanger the existance of IIP" (just to clarify)
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; no
<p>01:29 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; thank you
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; but 
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; it's not nice
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>01:30 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; I was just wondering how liberally mids' statement would be taken :)
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; ok
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; now we have another thing
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; maybe it is channel, maybe network wide
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; 'dont reveal the identify of others without permission'
<p>01:31 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; I don't think that should be regulated
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; it's more of a request
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; not a regulation
<p>01:31 &lt;@mids&gt; maybe on a personal / per channel base?
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; ok, got network covered... lets move to #anonymous
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; what is the main purpose of this channel
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; and what is its name :)
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; personally I think that it is about freedom of speech
<p>01:32 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; bash liberals?
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; & that is what IIP is about
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; so, I don't think that any additional rules are needed except for the network ones
<p>01:33 &lt; Robert&gt; .
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; with the suggestion to move offtopic stuff to the appropriate channels
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; freenet stuff may be discussed there
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; but should be not taken too seriouyd
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; serioud
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; err
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; whatever :)
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; if someone is doing / saying things that you dont like
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; consider using /ignore
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; (see your IRC client manual for more information)
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; other additions to #anonymous?
<p>01:35 &lt; Neo&gt;  /ignore #anonymous works pretty good for me :)
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; Neo: I think you mean /part #anonymous :)
<p>01:36 &lt; Neo&gt; :)
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; now the other official channels...
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; which do we have?
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; I think : #iip 
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; #iip-dev and #help
<p>01:37 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; what about #freenet?
<p>01:37 &lt;@mids&gt; hm, since there is no real relationship between freenet and IIP, I think that that isnt an official matter
<p>01:38 &lt; ellison&gt; #terrorist-plots
<p>01:38 &lt; ellison&gt; ;-)
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; #freenet channel policies should be discussed with the #freenet founder and operators
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; -Trent(anon.iip)- The channel #terrorist-plots is NOT registered
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; ok
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; #iip is the main serious IIP channel
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; (imho)
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; so, stuff there should be related to IIP
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; and should be correct.. don't give incorrect info there
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; maybe same for #help
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; anyway
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; I got the hint that we are getting bored
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; :)
<p>01:40 &lt;@mids&gt; ,
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; basically
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; no inhibiting people's speech
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; only time to regulate
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; is if others are inhibiting free speech
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; aka spamming
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; or flooding
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; and do not abuse operator powers to inhibit speech
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; got it
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; good
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; move on
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; yup
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; official thingL
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; reinstate cohesion
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; we will once we talk to him and review the rules
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; he should be re-instated
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; done
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; with level 2
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; over & out :)
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; 3) Website
<p>01:43 &lt;@mids&gt; --------
<p>01:43 &lt;@mids&gt; how is the design going?
<p>01:43 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; ?
<p>01:43  * mids looks at the agenda
<p>01:43 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison: got something to say? :)
<p>01:44 &lt; ellison&gt; ah
<p>01:44 &lt; ellison&gt; working on it right now
<p>01:44 &lt; ellison&gt; looks cool, trust me.
<p>01:44 &lt; ellison&gt; ;-)
<p>01:44 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; which "sample" is his
<p>01:44 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; ?
<p>01:44 &lt; ellison&gt; I might have something to show by the end of the meeting - if not then, later tonight
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; another design (from tikk) is on http://www.nokhockey.com/scott/IIP/home2.htm
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; hm, nop, can you say something about "wear IIP? 
<p>01:47 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; hold please
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; on phone
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; ah
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; "if you cant wait till the IIP site is done and already want to show your passion with IIP : http://www.cafepress.com/invisiblenet
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; nop got some nice stuff there
<p>01:48  * mids bought some IIP tshirts :)
<p>01:49 &lt;@nop&gt; all funding goes to fund the project
<p>01:49 &lt;@mids&gt; but most goes to the cafepress guys :(
<p>01:49 &lt;@mids&gt; I want to have a black tshirt with a white IIP logo
<p>01:50 &lt;@mids&gt; if you know a way to get it... tell us :)
<p>01:50 &lt; ellison&gt; i want a black t-shirt with a black logo...
<p>01:51 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison: noted.. we will have them too :)
<p>01:51 &lt; ellison&gt; :-)
<p>01:51 &lt;@mids&gt; other comments?
<p>01:51 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; I want something blue :)
<p>01:51 &lt;@mids&gt; BluePaperBoy: cool
<p>01:51 &lt;@mids&gt; I think that the logo's that Banks made are available
<p>01:51 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; ...can't find anything though ;(
<p>02:07 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: Info, agenda, log : http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ | Tuesday 23:00 UTC - http://e-store.invisiblenet.net
<p>02:07 [Users #iip-dev]
<p>02:07 [@codeshark   ] [ ellison] [ logger] [ Robert   ] [ UserX] 
<p>02:07 [@nop         ] [ epoch  ] [ mids  ] [ Rooster77] 
<p>02:07 [+BluePaperBoy] [ I      ] [ Neo   ] [ UnDeRToW ] 
<p>02:07 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 13 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 10 normal]
<p>02:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 1 secs
<p>02:07 &lt; Neo&gt; &lt;UserX&gt; A new protocol has now been implemented for IIP 1.1 details of it are at: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting4/iip11proto.txt
<p>02:07 &lt; Neo&gt; &lt;UserX&gt; this adds error detection and fixes problems introduced by the server having a static key
<p>02:07 &lt; Neo&gt; (4 the logger)
<p>02:08 &lt; logger&gt; gracia
<p>02:10 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:10 &lt;@nop&gt; next
<p>02:10 &lt; logger&gt; 3,4]                                                                                      
<p>02:11 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o mids] by Trent
<p>02:13 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; ...
<p>02:14 &lt;@mids&gt; hmpf
<p>02:14 &lt;@mids&gt; sorry ppl
<p>02:14 &lt;@mids&gt; blaim the civ :)
<p>02:14 &lt;@mids&gt; did you all see the new network diagrams?
<p>02:14 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>02:14 &lt;@nop&gt; links etc
<p>02:15 &lt;@mids&gt; question:
<p>02:15 &lt;@mids&gt; bigendian == network order?
<p>02:15 &lt;@nop&gt; big endian == byte order
<p>02:15 &lt;@mids&gt; byte order != network order?
<p>02:16 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:16 &lt;@nop&gt; any questions
<p>02:16 &lt;@nop&gt; before we close the meeting
<p>02:16 &lt; UserX&gt; as i understand bigendian byte order is the network byte order
<p>02:16 &lt;@mids&gt; thanks UserX 
<p>02:17 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o UserX] by mids
<p>02:17 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; can we translate the isproxy too?
<p>02:18 &lt;@mids&gt; can you explain? windows, unix, docs?
<p>02:19 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; the program to join here
<p>02:20 &lt;@mids&gt; how do such programs work? do they detect the language automatically?
<p>02:20 &lt;@nop&gt; locale I guess
<p>02:21 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; or have different versions
<p>02:21 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; spannish, french .....
<p>02:22 &lt;@UserX&gt; there are some hooks for adding translations (gettext style) to isproxy but no support for doing actual translations yet
<p>02:22 &lt;@mids&gt; I think that is a good thing.. certainly not for 1.1.. but to keep in mind, maybe 1.2 ?
<p>02:22 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; great
<p>02:23 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; and also a we have to start a FAQ
<p>02:23 &lt;@mids&gt; but, I think the work involved shouldnt underestimated... chinese characters sound complex to me
<p>02:24 &lt;@mids&gt; UserX: any idea how the windows i18n is?
<p>02:24 &lt;@codeshark&gt; you can use resource files on windows
<p>02:24 &lt;@nop&gt; chinese require double byte
<p>02:24 &lt;@nop&gt; unicode
<p>02:24 &lt;@codeshark&gt; yes
<p>02:24 &lt;@UserX&gt; mids: do you mean how hard it would be to do translation?
<p>02:24 &lt;@mids&gt; Rooster77 knows something about htat
<p>02:25 &lt;@mids&gt; UserX: no, more the unicode / utf8 support
<p>02:26 &lt; Rooster77&gt; Rooster77 is not fluent yet, but is working on it..
<p>02:27 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; just give it to a chinese programmer ;)
<p>02:27 &lt; Rooster77&gt; good idea...!
<p>02:27 &lt;@UserX&gt; not that familar with it but as i understand you can select codepages for interpreting 8 bit characters
<p>02:28 &lt;@mids&gt; okay... more questions?
<p>02:30 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; i need the new docs to update the translation
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; okay, while they are still under review, you can get them from the CVS
<p>02:30 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; ok
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; do you know how to use CVS?
<p>02:30 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; mids: are we stuck with that crappy iip logo?  What ever happend to the copyrighted casper pics?
<p>02:30 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; yes
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; UnDeRToW: contrib/htmldoc/
<p>02:31 &lt;@nop&gt; which logo
<p>02:31 &lt;@mids&gt; UnDeRToW: thats where everything is
<p>02:31 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; the two trenchcoat guys then the p
<p>02:31 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; ok
<p>02:31 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; ...on the clothing ;)
<p>02:31 &lt;@mids&gt; I like the new design
<p>02:32 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; and the FAQ
<p>02:32 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; we have to do one
<p>02:32 &lt;@mids&gt; UnDeRToW: banks started some faq items in the manual too
<p>02:32 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; i see almost always the same quesitons
<p>02:32 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; ok
<p>02:32 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; i will take a look
<p>02:33 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; last thing
<p>02:33 &lt;@nop&gt; k
<p>02:33 &lt;@nop&gt; I think we're done
<p>02:33 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; i think
<p>02:34 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; would be usefull to being able to change your trent password
<p>02:35 &lt;@mids&gt; ok
<p>02:35 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; if you want to change you pass you have to drop the nick
<p>02:35 &lt;@mids&gt; would it be needed to enter it twice?
<p>02:35 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; but if you drop you loose the channels
<p>02:35 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; mids: that would be nice
<p>02:36 &lt;@mids&gt; I'll think about it :)
<p>02:37 &lt;@mids&gt; (no reason not to do it, just someone has to code it)
<p>02:37 &lt;@nop&gt; should be like 5 lines of code
<p>02:37 &lt;@mids&gt; well, 6
<p>02:37 &lt;@mids&gt; :)
<p>02:38 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; so it'll be done within a year I guess :)
<p>02:38 &lt;@mids&gt; very likely
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:39 &lt;@mids&gt; remember me everydat
<p>02:39 &lt;@mids&gt; day
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; one thing
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; http://e-store.invisiblenet.net
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; support the project
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; will work on getting black on white
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; ellison
<p>02:39 &lt;@nop&gt; anything on website yet
<p>02:39 &lt; ellison&gt; hey,
<p>02:39 &lt; ellison&gt; about 1 hour away from something I'd be comfortable showing
<p>02:40 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:40 &lt;@nop&gt; is it like just started
<p>02:40 &lt;@nop&gt; or is it fully functional 
<p>02:40 &lt;@nop&gt; the one you're showing
<p>02:40 &lt;@nop&gt; ?
<p>02:40 &lt; ellison&gt; this is a photoshop draft
<p>02:40 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; are you hardcoding or cheating?
<p>02:40 &lt; ellison&gt; ?
<p>02:41 &lt; ellison&gt; it's quite a few steps away from a finished site, but I can break out the HTML for templates in a day or so once the design is finalized
<p>02:42 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:42 &lt;@nop&gt; kewl
<p>02:45 &lt;@mids&gt; okay folks, I am going to sleep.. thanks for the patience  :)
<p>02:46 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; me too
<p>02:46 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; i have to wake up in 4 hours
<p>02:46 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; :(
<p>02:46 &lt; UnDeRToW&gt; bye
<p>02:46 &lt;+BluePaperBoy&gt; bye
<p>03:08 &lt; logger&gt; logging ended
<p>--- Log closed Wed Jun 12 03:08:35 2002
</div>
{% endblock %}