{% extends "_layout.html" %} {% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 95{% endblock %} {% block content %}

14:00 < jrandom> 0) hi

14:00 < jrandom> 1) status update

14:00 < jrandom> 2) cvs HEAD

14:00 < jrandom> 3) 0.4

14:00 < jrandom> 4) 1.0

14:00 < jrandom> 5) other activities

14:00 < jrandom> 6) ???

14:00 < jrandom> 0) hi

14:00 < dm> 7) Profit!!

14:00 < mihi> hi

14:00 < cervantes> hello

14:00 < dm> hi

14:00 < fvw> hi dr nick

14:01 < jrandom> for all those playing at home, we've got the status notes up @ http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-June/000286.html

14:01 < jrandom> as we've done in the past, that contains the actual content - we get all meta here and discuss stuff

14:01 * dm is playing at home. WINK WINK WINK.

14:01 < jrandom> BrianR: this is where the LART comes in handy

14:02 < jrandom> anyway, jumping into 1) status update

14:02 < thecrypto> let's see if i can connect to an eepsite

14:03 < jrandom> the other day we had a larger than usual # of routers jumping off the network, which i'm hoping is because a lot of the services on the network were b0rked due to my stupid bugs

14:03 * mihi fires up his router

14:03 < thecrypto> yah!

14:03 < jrandom> if people are taking down their router for another reason (bugs, cpu/memory usage, etc) i'd really love to hear about it

14:04 < dm> ok

14:05 < BrianR> I must say, i2p is currently more well behaved than freenet on my machine... Both in bandwidth hogging and cpu/ram hogging.

14:05 < jrandom> there's a really bad bug in cvs at the moment, but fixed locally - i'll have that committed later tonight (not sure if i'll do so before or after getting my new machine together)

14:05 < jrandom> ah wikked

14:06 < jrandom> well, to be fair, i2p does a lot less than freenet - once we have thousands of routers we'll see how it goes

14:06 < dm> Why don't operating system's have per-application bandwidth limiting built-in? Is it a hard task?

14:06 < BrianR> I'd like to do some stress testing with i2p's built in bandwidth limiting stuff though. How far along is that?

14:06 < dm> All these projects wasting time implementing their own bandwidth limiting, seems silly.

14:06 < fvw> dm: Linux does it, as does freebsd no doubt.

14:07 < dm> Do they?

14:07 < cervantes> netlimiter on windoze does it

14:07 < BrianR> dm: It's not a hard task. There's lots of system level bandwidth limiting stuff available, for 'doze, linux, *bsd...

14:07 < dm> Makes sense to put it in the OS if you ask me.

14:07 < fvw> dm iptables marking + tc under linux; Using it right now, works like a charm.

14:07 < jrandom> BrianR: its in pretty good shape - it'll be in the next 0.3.1.5 release (which i'm hoping to have out this week)

14:07 < dm> But anyway...

14:07 < BrianR> thing is, it often makes more sense to do limiting at the application level so you can make intelligent decisions about where to spend bandwidth first

14:08 < jrandom> exactly

14:08 < dm> That's a different problem.

14:08 < jrandom> with bandwidth limiting within i2p, we know when we're saturating our limit and can refuse to participate in tunnels (etc)

14:08 < BrianR> At the application level you have no idea which one of your TCP connections is going to lose a packet when you're above the system imposed TX limit.

14:08 < fvw> actually, best would be to have the OS give proper feedback; But that's not relevant for i2p right now.

14:09 < jrandom> true fvw, once we integrate i2p with tun/tap ;)

14:09 < BrianR> fvw: You do get some feedback in terms of backpressure.. But it's hard to tell if backpressure is due to the remote side's link being slow or the local side..

14:09 < dm> Put a bounty on patching windows to have per-application bandwidth limiting. Thanks.

14:09 < jrandom> heh

14:09 < fvw> "my stuff isn't arriving" and "this connection is being throttled now" are two entirely different things.

14:09 < fvw> they sometimes overlap ofcourse.

14:10 < dm> (extra $20 for having a small graph with bandwidth usage of each window in the window title bar... Next to the minimize buttons, etc)

14:11 < jrandom> ok does anyone else have any network status related things to bring up?

14:12 < BrianR> Oh.. That IRC connection monitoring thing..

14:12 < duckie> I appologize for updating to cvs

14:12 < jrandom> hehe

14:12 < BrianR> Is there a MRTG graph of that or logs or something somewhere?

14:12 < jrandom> bogobot right? duck.i2p/bogo/ iirc?

14:13 < duckie> something like that

14:13 < jrandom> (its linked to off duck.i2p, my routers are down atm so i cant check)

14:13 < duckie> linked to on http://duck.i2p/ uder the stats section

14:13 < duckie> http://duck.i2p/bogobotlogs/

14:14 < BrianR> it might be useful to extend that thing to act as a general reachability survey tool..

14:15 < dm> You guys type reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally slowly.

14:15 < deer> <cervantes> hypercubus has some enhancements on the backburner, but he's pretty busy with installer stuff atm

14:16 < jrandom> BrianR: bogobot is just for passive irc tracking, but someone could modify i2ptunnel's ping command to support periodic checking?

14:16 < jrandom> or someone could whip up a perl/SAM script ;)

14:16 < BrianR> maybe some sort of script that produces a MRTG graph of endpoint reachability....

14:16 < BrianR> jrandom: speaking of perl/sam, bring that up again when we get to the appropriate number in the agenda

14:16 < duckie> doesnt the heartbeat thing do that?

14:17 < BrianR> If it does, I couldn't make it work :(

14:17 < jrandom> kind of - heartbeat tests heartbeat servers, not generic apps

14:18 < BrianR> Yes... Like I want to see if I can successfully do a "GET /" on duck.i2p, and how long it took.

14:18 < jrandom> but yes, once the net is in good shape, lots of people can run a heartbeat server and people can ping each other to measure network performance

14:18 < Nightblade> pingflood too

14:18 < dm> Is there a limit on GET strings?

14:18 < dm> like if you have a really long URL, because of cgi parameters?

14:19 < cervantes> 2047 characters iirc

14:19 < jrandom> that wouldnt be too hard to put together

14:19 < BrianR> dm: Depends on the web server... I think the RFC also specifies a minimum which must be suported.

14:19 < jrandom> (er, an http tester)

14:19 < dm> cervantes: thanks

14:19 < dm> (just realized it might affect something I've been working on)

14:20 < cervantes> you run into 2 problems, webserver support and client support

14:20 < BrianR> have we stumbled off topic?

14:20 < cervantes> both IE and Mozilla are 2047

14:20 < cervantes> eer yep :)

14:21 < dm> I got my answer, we can move on :)

14:21 < jrandom> ok, i think that covers 1), now briefly to 2) cvs HEAD

14:21 < jrandom> there's a nasty bug in there currently, and i apologize for not fixing it sooner

14:22 < jrandom> in general, if you try out cvs HEAD and it doesnt work well, just roll back (download jars / pull from the tag)

14:22 < jrandom> anyway, 'nuff 'bout that

14:23 < jrandom> jumping forward to 3) 0.4

14:23 < jrandom> the email has my viewpoint / rational for the release - anyone have any concerns / questions / ideas / suggestions?

14:24 < Nightblade> looks good to me

14:24 < duckie> how does it change the time estimates?

14:24 * fvw nods. Sane and everything.

14:25 < jrandom> it actually moves 0.4 closer, as we're pushing the scary parts of 0.3.3 into 0.4.1 and 0.4.2

14:25 < jrandom> i dont think it'll change the 1.0 dates, just moving things around before it

14:26 < jrandom> the sim has shown our main problem with tunnel diversification can be easily remedied by active peer testing

14:26 < jrandom> we had some of this in the pre 0.2.3 revs, but stopped that since it seemed to add too much overhead

14:27 < jrandom> (when in fact lots of shit was just plain broken, causing the overhead)

14:27 < deer> <cervantes> what does active peer testing involve?

14:29 < jrandom> it just means we'll build some secondary tunnels through peers we wouldnt normally use - specifically, i'm going to have it pull random peers from the 'reliable' set who arent in the 'fast+reliable' set

14:29 < jrandom> (and if that intersection is too small, extend it to the 'not failing' set)

14:29 < jrandom> i dont know how many tunnels or peers to test yet, we'll probably keep that as a tunable parameter

14:30 < jrandom> the issue manifests itself in the peer profiles - you'll see lots of values for your favorite peers, but lots of 0s or other low numbers for other peers

14:30 < jrandom> (which may be due to them being shitty, or more likely due to them not being tested)

14:31 < jrandom> ok, anything else on 0.4? or should we move on to 4) 1.0?

14:32 < duckie> yes

14:33 < jrandom> 4) 1.0

14:33 < jrandom> i dont see 1.0 as a big scary asymptotically approached release. its just a release where things work and people can use it

14:34 < jrandom> that said, anyone have any concerns / ideas / suggestions/ questions wrt whats in the mail?

14:35 < dm> The rate at which the versioning is increasing would indeed indicate that it is an asymptotically approached 1.0

14:36 < dm> We're gonna need some big jumps!

14:36 < jrandom> 0.4--> 1.0

14:36 < dm> Sweeeeeeeet....

14:36 < jrandom> and we're only a few weeks from 0.4

14:37 < jrandom> but, of course, we could use some help to get things moving faster :)

14:37 < dm> Are we happy with stability then?

14:37 < jrandom> no, stability right now sucks

14:37 < cervantes> myi2p could be a fairly hefty bit of development to get implemented properly, since it ideally relies on other projects coming to fruition

14:37 < dm> Okay, haven't been following closely.

14:38 < cervantes> such as DHT and datagrams etc

14:38 < jrandom> agreed cervantes, but if we just have it with the address book and distributed blogging, that'll be good enough for me.

14:38 < cervantes> right

14:38 < jrandom> nightblade is working on a dht that we can plug in whenever its ready, or we could add hooks for referencing freenet:CHK@ or SSK@

14:39 < cervantes> private messaging is just a small hop from the syndicated address book too

14:39 < jrandom> right, its all doable

14:40 < cervantes> live streaming cam girl desktop might take longer...

14:40 -!- Irssi: #i2p: Total of 21 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal]

14:40 < jrandom> heh

14:40 < jrandom> actually, as I mentioned to Sonium before the meeting, one of the things people can help out with is the documentation front -

14:41 < jrandom> defining what docs we will need, starting to do some outlines of how those docs will fit together, and perhaps even tossing open an editor and writing 'em

14:42 < cervantes> ah I meant to enquire earlier about enhancing the console GUI too

14:42 < jrandom> docs are an essential part of the releases, both for tech docs (since without good tech docs, no devs will get involved) and for user docs (since without good user docs, users will leave)

14:42 < jrandom> that we'll want for the 0.4 release, and will be jsp/servlet driven

14:43 < jrandom> i havent done any mockups or workflows for that even, so if someone wants to jump on that, we could use the help

14:43 < Nightblade> console GUI? what is that - SVGALIB? :)

14:43 < jrandom> heh

14:43 < mihi> Nightblade: TWIN / curses

14:43 < cervantes> is the data set the same or are there new and improved stats for 0.4

14:44 < dm> I want a console gui in WIN32/MFC

14:44 < Nightblade> the http console on 7655 right

14:44 < cervantes> ie the duration that elephants stay on the moon, and whether they return freuqently

14:44 < cervantes> yup

14:44 < jrandom> all of the things on the console now reflect data that can be made available to a 0.4 console, but we should totally throw out its existing design

14:45 < jrandom> (e.g. no one cares what the base64 of a routerIdentity's public key is)

14:45 < cervantes> although I suggest that info should still be available

14:46 < jrandom> yeah, i think we may keep the existing console as an option - no need to throw it away

14:46 < jrandom> (but it'd be something like http://localhost:7655/uglyConsole/)

14:46 < cervantes> ./forlynxusers/

14:47 < jrandom> the new admin console should work for lynx users too

14:47 < dm> Does anyone really use lynx?

14:47 < cervantes> eeew cross browser compatibility

14:47 < jrandom> i do

14:47 < jrandom> (at times)

14:47 < dm> but.... why?

14:47 < fvw> for things like brief config edits, definately.

14:47 < cervantes> dm: if you're stuck at a command prompt you don't have much choice

14:47 < fvw> it's quick and you don't need X

14:48 < Nightblade> i use it for web browsing on headless servers

14:48 < deer> <Pseudonym> I use links browser

14:48 < jrandom> well, yeah, links is preferable to lynx

14:48 < mihi> anyone using w3m?

14:48 < dm> I use INTERNET EXPLORER FROM MICROSOFT

14:48 < dm> It's quite cool.

14:48 < jrandom> good point - anything else wrt i2p 1.0?

14:49 < dm> Won the browser war of 1992-1998

14:49 < jrandom> or moving on to 5) other activites?

14:49 < dm> 3 medals of honor.

14:49 < Nightblade> yes

14:49 < Nightblade> I am hoping to release a new version of libsam tomorrow but my home computer is broke so I don't know

14:49 < Nightblade> I am going to also upload Nickster's threading library

14:49 < jrandom> awesome!/doh!

14:50 < jrandom> nice!

14:50 < Nightblade> which he said was public domain - i am just going to upload it exactly as he sent it - i haven't had time to do much with it

14:50 < jrandom> once 0.3.1.5 is out, i'll start running the cvs server on i2p as well

14:50 < jrandom> cool

14:51 < jrandom> (so nickster will be able to make edits/updates to his code in cvs without exposing his ip)

14:51 < jrandom> whats new in the next rev of libsam?

14:51 < Nightblade> some fixes to datagram send/receive which were broken

14:51 < Nightblade> and some other stuff i don't remember

14:51 < Nightblade> it iwll be in the changelog

14:51 < jrandom> cool, sounds good

14:52 < jrandom> btw, if you want a mailing list for libsam (-announce,-dev,-users,etc) lemmie know

14:52 < jrandom> (but posting on i2p@i2p is fine too)

14:52 < Nightblade> overkill

14:52 < jrandom> hehe

14:53 < jrandom> yeah prolly

14:53 < cervantes> he can have a section in i2pforum

14:53 * cervantes moves smoothly onto his agenda

14:53 < Nightblade> maybe once I get that DHT working - but that is a long way off, and today and yesterday I hvane't had time to do much with it

14:53 < Nightblade> cervantes: there is already an application development forum or somethihng like that iirc

14:53 < Nightblade> also Connelly needs an account on i2p.net if someone has gotten him one yet

14:53 < cervantes> specifically in relation to i2p?

14:54 < Nightblade> http://www.i2p.net/forum/3

14:54 < jrandom> oh, i havent added an account for connelly, i'll chat with 'im next time i see him

14:54 < fvw> dang, got to run. See you all next week, keep up the good work.

14:54 < jrandom> ugh, yeah, i dont know about the www.i2p.net/forum/s

14:54 < cervantes> ah...drupal...

14:55 < jrandom> cool fvw, glad you could make it

14:56 < cervantes> the i2pforum is pretty much set up

14:56 < cervantes> it basically just needs content/users to fill it :)

14:56 < jrandom> i'm not sure about the drupal forums, or whether they really fit with what i see the website being. i kind of like the idea of a seperate site thats dedicated to being a user/dev forum

14:57 < jrandom> cool cervantes - is that as an eepsite, website, or both?

14:57 < cervantes> I've picked arbitrary forum topics/sections so if people have any ideas or want to write stuff for FAQs etc them that would be appreciated

14:57 < cervantes> it's both

14:58 < cervantes> currently I have the i2p tunnel offline while my router is so unstable

14:58 < jrandom> cant say i blame you :)

14:58 < Nightblade> what is the url

14:58 < cervantes> but people can start playing on outweb

14:59 < cervantes> currenlty you'll have to add an entry to /etc/hosts c:/windows/system32/drivers/etc/hosts

14:59 < cervantes> 212.113.22.104 i2pforum.cervantes.not2p

14:59 < jrandom> heh

15:00 < cervantes> I'll configure it with a proper hostname soon

15:00 < cervantes> or if someone wants to add a subdomain pointer to the php.net domain record...that would be better

15:00 < jrandom> lemmie know if you want something under the i2p.net domain or if you're going with another domain thats cool

15:00 < cervantes> blah

15:00 < cervantes> i2p.net

15:00 < cervantes> <-- php on the brain

15:01 < jrandom> do you want that to be e.g. forum.i2p.net?

15:01 < cervantes> that would be cool ;-)

15:01 < jrandom> w3rd, i'll update the records tonight

15:01 < cervantes> I've tweaked standard phpbb2 code so it doesn't require a valid email to become a member

15:01 < dm> "The site you requested is no longer hosted here"

15:02 < cervantes> if you forget your pass then you have to contact an admin

15:02 < cervantes> dm: did you enter that into your hosts file or are you just browsing to the IP

15:03 < dm> Invalid URI in request GET i2pforum.cervantes.

15:03 < dm> not2p/<P>

15:03 < dm> I don't use browsers, I'm using telnet.

15:04 < jrandom> i did it through telnet just now. works fine.

15:04 < dm> hmm forgot the HTTP 1.1 I think.

15:04 < jrandom> GET / HTTP/1.1\nHost: i2pforum.cervantes.not2p\n\n

15:04 < jrandom> anyway

15:04 < jrandom> BrianR: ping

15:05 < dm> That worked. Your telnetting skills are sharp, young one.

15:07 -!- Irssi: #i2p: Total of 19 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 19 normal]

15:07 < jrandom> ok, anyone else working on i2p related projects they want to discuss?

15:07 < jrandom> if not, 6) ???

15:07 < dm> cum!

15:07 * wern put a hand in the air

15:07 < jrandom> hi^2, que tal?

15:08 * jrandom calls on wilde

15:08 -!- wern is now known as wilde

15:08 < wilde> I just want to thank our new sponsors, cervantes and hypercubus

15:08 < wilde> :)

15:09 < wilde> we got two generous donations to the general fund

15:09 < cervantes> wilde: did they convert ok?

15:09 < dm> how much?

15:09 < wilde> cervantes: will exchange them tomorrow

15:09 < cervantes> ah

15:09 < wilde> (hopefully)

15:10 < cervantes> so there still might be a runner-up prize ;-)

15:10 < jrandom> awesome, thanks cervantes & hypercubus :)

15:10 < cervantes> heh...well save praise until the money is in the bank I think ;-)

15:11 < dm> twas a good meeting. I'm off to bed.

15:11 < dm> Nite!

15:11 < jrandom> 'night dm

15:11 < wilde> yeah, I'll do the full praising next time

15:11 < jrandom> ok, anything else to add wilde, or someone else?

15:11 < wilde> yeah

15:12 < wilde> I'll take the i2p.net site down tomorrow for a while (intentionally this time ;)

15:12 < wilde> to switch servers

15:12 < jrandom> heh ok cool

15:12 < wilde> hold on to your posts, they may disappear

15:12 < jrandom> will we have the same IP, or should I update the records?

15:12 < dm> can you make it seamless?

15:12 < wilde> if you post tomorrow that is

15:13 < wilde> dm: no way ;)

15:13 < wilde> not me

15:13 < dm> okay.

15:13 < wilde> jrandom: same IP

15:13 < jrandom> ok cool

15:13 < jrandom> wilde++

15:13 < wilde> over and out

15:14 < jrandom> ok, anyone else have something they'd like to discuss?

15:14 * cervantes puts on his metal "ming the merciless" skullcap

15:14 < jrandom> in that case

15:15 * jrandom winds up

15:15 * jrandom *baf*s cervantes on the head, closing the meeting

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