{% extends "_layout.html" %} {% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 112{% endblock %} {% block content %}

I2P dev meeting, October 19, 2004

14:03 < jrandom> 1) 0.4.1.3

14:03 < jrandom> 2) Tunnel test time, and send processing time

14:03 < jrandom> 3) Streaming lib

14:03 < jrandom> 4) files.i2p

14:03 < jrandom> 5) ???

14:03 < jrandom> 0) hi

14:03 * jrandom waves

14:04 < modulus> hi hi

14:04 < jrandom> weekly status notes posted up @ http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-October/000469.html

14:04 < deer_> <fidd> howdy

14:04 < jrandom> i didn't spend much time on the notes, so they're pretty brief

14:05 < jrandom> but, c'est la vie

14:05 < jrandom> moving on to 1) 0.4.1.3

14:05 < jrandom> the release came out the other day and its been.. well... largely like before

14:05 < jrandom> working good enough for most things, but not as reliable as we'd like

14:06 < jrandom> throughput is still low, but thats a know issue to be dealt with in 0.4.2

14:06 < jrandom> as mentioned in the email, I dont expect there to be any more 0.4.1.* releases

14:07 < jrandom> I dont have much more to say on that - anyone have any comments / concerns?

14:07 < deer_> <newsbyte> yes: what about the freeze-up?

14:09 < jrandom> I'm not going to discount the possibility that your machine hung due to I2P, but I severely doubt it

14:09 < jrandom> no one else has ever reported that happening on any platform

14:09 < deer_> <newsbyte> well...it must be related to it somehow, if not directly, IMHO

14:09 < deer_> <newsbyte> maybe the java?

14:10 < jrandom> you're on 1.5 on w2k?

14:10 < jrandom> or 1.4.2_05?

14:10 < deer_> <newsbyte> nope, 1.5

14:10 < jrandom> ok

14:10 < deer_> <newsbyte> I can't exclude it's something else, ofcourse

14:11 < deer_> <newsbyte> could be coincidence it happend two times

14:11 < jrandom> well, we can discuss further how to find out the cause after the meeting if you'd like

14:11 < deer_> <newsbyte> but the last time..I dunno...nothing much else was running, then

14:11 < deer_> <dinoman> 1.5 on w2k works good for me :)

14:11 < deer_> <newsbyte> indeed, though

14:11 < deer_> <newsbyte> isn't there a simple debug log or something?

14:11 < jrandom> if it happens again, please send me wrapper.log and logs/log-router-*.txt

14:11 < deer_> <newsbyte> that might be usefull when it freezes

14:11 < jrandom> there are more logs than dirt ;)

14:12 < jrandom> ok cool dinoman

14:12 < jrandom> perhaps it was some interaction with your software firewall

14:12 < deer_> <newsbyte> maybe

14:12 < jrandom> but, yeah,bounce me logs if it happens again

14:12 < jrandom> (please :)

14:12 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, that it would get blocked, I would understand

14:12 < deer_> <newsbyte> but a total freeze...dunno...was creepy

14:13 < deer_> <newsbyte> on the bright side: I've 27/63 now

14:13 < jrandom> great

14:13 < jrandom> ok, anyone else have any questions/comments/concerns with 0.4.1.3?

14:13 < deer_> <newsbyte> I'll guees I'll ask Whoo to guide my through the eep thingy

14:13 < deer_> <dinoman> just don't use it with Sygate Personal Firewall bad bad

14:13 < deer_> <newsbyte> why?

14:14 < deer_> <dinoman> crash

14:14 < deer_> <newsbyte> yes; you forgot 6) profit!!

14:14 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:14 < deer_> <newsbyte> crash?

14:14 < deer_> <newsbyte> ermm

14:14 < jrandom> dinoman: it crashes your OS? the firewall? I2P?

14:14 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, wouldn't that explain it, then? ;-)

14:15 < jrandom> newsbyte: are you running Sygate Personal Firewall?

14:15 < deer_> <newsbyte> indeed

14:15 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, not on my router

14:15 < deer_> <newsbyte> but on the puter, yes

14:15 < deer_> <newsbyte> seems we're on to something

14:16 < deer_> <DrWoo> newsbyte: /join #i2p-chat so jrandom can get through his meeting

14:16 < deer_> <newsbyte> though it doesn't crash/freeze immediately, apperently

14:16 < deer_> <dinoman> os it crashes windows

14:16 < deer_> <newsbyte> ?

14:16 < deer_> <newsbyte> jrand is already here

14:16 < deer_> <dinoman> sorry looked away

14:16 < jrandom> ok, perhaps we can look into what SPF is b0rking on

14:16 < jrandom> if there's nothing else on 0.4.1.3, moving on to 2) Tunnel test time, and send processing time

14:17 < jrandom> there was some discussion yesterday exploring some of the timeouts, and basically things just occationally take too long

14:17 < jrandom> i dont think the spikes you can see in http://dev.i2p.net/~jrandom/processingTime.png are legitimate though

14:18 < jrandom> well, they're real - it really does take that long

14:18 < jrandom> what i mean is, we should be able to get rid of them

14:18 < jrandom> some queueing is going to happen, but if we are more careful with what we accept, we should be able to reduce it

14:19 < jrandom> the delays are also likely due to some occational spikes in job processing time, which we can tune the fsck out of

14:20 < jrandom> in general though, the message queueing seems all right, even if it spikes up some tunnel tests

14:20 < deer_> <newsbyte> darn..I wish freenet and i2p could really merge...seems like progress would be a lot faster, possibly beneficial to both

14:20 < deer_> <Ragnarok> yeah, I don't see why fsck would be useful for jon processing :)

14:20 < deer_> <Ragnarok> s/jon/job/

14:21 < jrandom> there is much potential for collaboration, but the two projects have very different aims

14:21 < jrandom> !thwap Ragnarok

14:21 < deer_> <newsbyte> ermm

14:21 < jrandom> oh, one thing I mentioned yesterday

14:21 < deer_> <newsbyte> I don't think the projects' goals, however, are all that different...

14:22 < deer_> <DrWoo> jrandom: technical goals

14:22 < jrandom> newsbyte: we can discuss that in 5) ??? or later if you prefer, we're on 2) right now

14:22 < deer_> <DrWoo> oops newsbyte: technical goals

14:22 < deer_> <Ragnarok> hehe

14:22 < deer_> <newsbyte> yes, and 3)profit! according to /. traditions!

14:22 < deer_> <newsbyte> :-)

14:22 < deer_> <Demokritos> I can't believe Tor is not backwards compatible from 0.0.8 to 0.0.8.1

14:23 < jrandom> with the tunnel testing, there is a floor to the test period - currently set to 5 seconds by default

14:23 < jrandom> the previous release had a hard limit of 30 seconds, but you can configure your own tunnel test time by updating http://localhost:7657/configadvanced.jsp and adding "router.tunnelTestMinimum=10000" (or whatever - that value is in milliseconds)

14:23 < deer_> <newsbyte> those seconds, are they alchimagical?

14:24 < jrandom> the 5s default should be fine though

14:24 < deer_> <Demokritos> I actually upgraded Tor the day before yesterday because it stopped working, and now the network is telling me again, I have a non compatible version... what the..

14:24 < deer_> <Demokritos> oh... hello everyone :)

14:24 < jrandom> newsbyte: the tunnel test time is MAX(avgTunnelTestTime*2, minTunnelTestTime)

14:25 < jrandom> (we have the minTunnelTestTime because otherwise a series of fast tests could cause a cascading failure)

14:26 < jrandom> more details can be found in http://dev.i2p.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/i2p/history.txt?rev=HEAD

14:26 < deer_> <newsbyte> hmm

14:26 < deer_> <Demokritos> this is really funny... a job agency wants me to use Internet Explorer, otherwise I'm not able to register an application

14:27 < jrandom> *cough* y'all realize these meeting logs go on the web, right? :)

14:27 < deer_> <Demokritos> <-- not too good in english

14:27 < deer_> <newsbyte> they do?!

14:27 < deer_> <newsbyte> Hi mum!

14:27 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:27 < deer_> <Demokritos> um, sorry. .I'm disturbing the meeting.. I'm off

14:28 < jrandom> naw, please stay, but discuss i2p stuff ;)

14:28 < deer_> <newsbyte> don't worry; disturbing is an art, just keep an eye on me, and you'll learn

14:28 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:28 < jrandom> ok, anything else on 2) Tunnel test time, and send processing time ?

14:28 < deer_> <Ragnarok> focus people

14:29 -!- znation [~znation@ip68-226-31-250.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]

14:29 < jrandom> if not, moving on to 3) Streaming lib

14:29 < jrandom> as mentioned in the status notes, lots of progress

14:29 -!- znation [~znation@ip68-226-31-250.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #i2p

14:29 < deer_> <newsbyte> done by you?

14:29 < jrandom> still not there yet, but I hope to be doing some live tests in the next week

14:30 < jrandom> i've been working on the streaming lib, yeah

14:30 < jrandom> i finally got it ping()ing earlier today ;)

14:30 < deer_> <Ragnarok> nice :)

14:31 < jrandom> ok, i dont really have anything else to add about that

14:31 < jrandom> anyone have any questions / comments / concerns?

14:31 < deer_> <newsbyte> ermm...speed?

14:31 < jrandom> speed is fine

14:31 < deer_> <baffled> what type of speed up/through put do you expect?

14:31 < jrandom> i expect significant throughput improvements

14:32 < deer_> <newsbyte> he expects a fine, he said

14:32 < deer_> <newsbyte> for speeding

14:32 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:32 < jrandom> in addition, for small request/response connections, the latency will be dramatically reduced

14:32 < jrandom> (cut in half)

14:32 < deer_> <dinoman> wow

14:32 < deer_> <dinoman> is that using udp?

14:33 < jrandom> the new lib exposes all the neat tunable parameters for normal TCP stacks too, so apps will be able to tweak out their own setup

14:33 < jrandom> no dinoman, this works on top of i2p's I2CP

14:33 < deer_> <dinoman> wow x2

14:33 < jrandom> (though we'll be writing similar code in a month or so to get the UDP transport..)

14:34 < jrandom> but, well, we'll see.

14:34 < deer_> <newsbyte> because...?

14:34 < jrandom> there's still a lot of work to do

14:34 < jrandom> because what?

14:34 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, can't tcp do it as well?

14:35 < jrandom> oh, why we're going to go UDP? http://www.i2p.net/todo#transport

14:35 < deer_> <newsbyte> I remember the same discussion on freenet too, but they sticked to tcp as yet

14:35 < jrandom> plus TCP is a general purpose streaming transport - we can dramatically simplify it, since we can put up with a certain degree of out of order

14:35 < deer_> <newsbyte> not that all decisions they make are good ;-)

14:36 < jrandom> newsbyte: i've followed those discussions and we're going to go udp

14:36 < jrandom> (that doesnt mean freenet is wrong - they've got different constraints)

14:37 < deer_> <Ragnarok> i2p should not be compared too closely to freenet. They're very different technically.

14:37 < deer_> <newsbyte> (or: they ARE wrong ;-)

14:37 < jrandom> i dont think their use of TCP right now is wrong, just as I dont think I2P's previous use of TCP is wrong. progress requires small steps

14:38 < deer_> <mule_iip> newsbyte makes sure the meetings don't get too short

14:38 < jrandom> heh

14:38 < deer_> <newsbyte> yeah, nothing worse then short meetings

14:38 < deer_> <newsbyte> you can't eat all the popcorn and drink all the beer, then

14:38 < jrandom> ok, anything else on 3) Streaming lib ?

14:39 < jrandom> if not, 4) files.i2p

14:39 < deer_> <Ragnarok> I think we're cool

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, I know I am

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> and funny too

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> most of the time

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> and also annoying

14:39 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:39 < jrandom> well, i just wanted to point out files.i2p - a new search engine on i2p

14:40 < deer_> <newsbyte> ah, I see

14:40 < deer_> <newsbyte> I was hoping it would be about putting eepsites up

14:40 < jrandom> one interesting thing to note is that you can reach eepsites that aren't up anymore with it, since it caches

14:41 < deer_> <baffled> does it cache everything?

14:41 < deer_> <newsbyte> all searchengines thusfar are server-side?

14:41 < deer_> <Ragnarok> interesting. Shouldn't be too hard, these days :).

14:41 < jrandom> baffled: caches text/html from what i can tell

14:42 < deer_> <mule_iip> at least it has limits on file size and types, so won't cache movies

14:42 < deer_> <baffled> Auh, that's what I thought not binary.

14:42 < deer_> <newsbyte> I mean, they are not in js, I suppose?

14:43 < jrandom> it uses nutch if anyone wants to look into it further. or i'm sure we'll get the site author to put up a feedback form or something ;)

14:43 < jrandom> newsbyte: correct, this is just a normal website hosted anonymously

14:43 < jrandom> the site contains a search engine (like google)

14:44 < jrandom> anyway, i just wanted to mention it

14:44 < jrandom> there have also been a lot of blogs popping up lately, which imho is really cool

14:44 < jrandom> my 'eep' bookmark folder almost fills a screen :)

14:44 < deer_> <Ragnarok> hehe, myi2p is happening all by itself :)

14:45 < jrandom> you just have to bring up the sore points, dont ya ragnarok? ;)

14:45 < deer_> <Ragnarok> sorry :)

14:46 < jrandom> ok, anyone have any questions/comments/concerns wrt files.i2p?

14:46 < jrandom> if not, let me move on to 4.1) biff

14:46 * jrandom almost forgot biff

14:46 < jrandom> postman, you arond?

14:47 < deer_> <newsbyte> I think he's biffed up

14:47 < jrandom> well, if not, biff is this new kickass mail notification bot

14:47 < jrandom> if you've got an email acct at mail.i2p, you can tell biff to notify you when you get new mail

14:47 < deer_> <newsbyte> does it has archives?

14:48 < jrandom> newsbyte: biff is just a notification bot, the mail is stored on the mail server (and accessed with your normal mail reader - kmail, etc)

14:48 < jrandom> see http://www.postman.i2p/

14:49 < jrandom> ok, so, yeah, go to the eepsite or check out #mail.i2p over there

14:49 < deer_> <newsbyte> I will, as soon as I get my eepsite on

14:49 * jrandom doesnt really know much more wrt biff - redirect any questions to postman

14:50 < jrandom> instead, we can move on to 5) ???

14:50 < deer_> <newsbyte> indeed

14:50 < jrandom> does anyone have anything else they want to bring up?

14:50 < deer_> * mule_iip raising hand to get voice: would like to recall my persistent FCP over I2P problems. but probably that can wait and will automagically be solved by 0.4.2.

14:50 < deer_> <newsbyte> yes, and the freeze

14:50 < jrandom> i hope so mule_iip

14:50 < deer_> <mule_iip> ok, will be your test platform :)

14:50 < jrandom> newsbyte: is there anything we need to discuss about it? could you just email me your logs if it happens again?

14:51 < jrandom> ooh mule, that'd rule

14:51 * jrandom will definitelytake you up on that

14:51 < deer_> <newsbyte> well...can i still send those, if everything is frozen?

14:51 < jrandom> the files are written to disk.

14:51 < jrandom> when you restart, send me the logs

14:51 < deer_> <newsbyte> I mean, in that case, I could send it now, since they should be somewhere

14:51 < jrandom> (please)

14:51 < deer_> <dinoman> i was in the forum and see that the jabber service is gone. was thaat of us to anyone if it was i would like to run one if it would be cool?

14:51 < jrandom> the files rotate though newsbyte

14:52 < jrandom> duck and demonic_1 have had jabber servers at various times, but it seems most of the i2p IM activity has been on irc

14:52 < deer_> <newsbyte> the files rotate? surely it stores quite some data before it starts deleting?

14:53 < jrandom> newsbyte: ok, send me your logs, maybe it has something in it

14:53 < deer_> <newsbyte> good

14:53 < deer_> <newsbyte> ermm

14:54 < deer_> <newsbyte> darn

14:54 < deer_> <newsbyte> a lot of .logs

14:54 < deer_> <dinoman> ok

14:54 < deer_> <newsbyte> a noob is never gonna follow this

14:54 < deer_> <newsbyte> I guess you're right in not making a /. article yet

14:55 < jrandom> we're in no rush

14:55 < deer_> <newsbyte> log-router.txt?

14:55 < jrandom> wrapper.log and logs/log-router-*.txt

14:56 < deer_> <newsbyte> and the mailaddy to use would be...?

14:56 < deer_> <fidd> dinoman, a jabber server would be cool imo

14:56 < jrandom> jrandom@i2p.net

14:56 < deer_> <newsbyte> accessible by i2p, I hope?

14:56 < deer_> <newsbyte> ;-)

14:56 < jrandom> newsbyte: you can put your logs on your eepsite and msg me the url

14:57 < jrandom> or you can send mail to jrandom@mail.i2p

14:57 < deer_> <newsbyte> indeed!

14:57 < deer_> <newsbyte> a good idea!

14:57 < deer_> <newsbyte> there is only one little problem with it: It's not up yet

14:57 < jrandom> ok, anyone else have anything they want to bring up?

14:57 < jrandom> well, we can work on that newsbyte

14:57 < jrandom> (after the meeting)

14:59 < deer_> <newsbyte> thnks, but whoo is already helping

14:59 < jrandom> if there's nothing else...

14:59 < deer_> <newsbyte> we need a detailed howto/wiki/helpsite/something, though

14:59 * jrandom winds up

14:59 < deer_> <Jake_> i'd like to say, for the meeting, if a public release of i2p can be made before the u.s. election on november 2nd, this would go a long way to helping ensure a stable democracy

14:59 < deer_> <newsbyte> what about 6)?

14:59 < jrandom> newsbyte: would you like to work on that?

15:00 < jrandom> newsbyte: i do agree it'd be great to get some more howtos and help info

15:00 < deer_> <Ragnarok> 6) There is no.... number 6

15:00 < deer_> <newsbyte> well, yeah, sort of, but it's a strange thing, with me

15:00 < deer_> <newsbyte> I'm pro-wiki and public thingy and free for everyone and all that

15:00 < deer_> <newsbyte> but my ego protests and wants minimal control

15:00 < jrandom> great

15:00 < deer_> <newsbyte> go figger

15:00 < jrandom> heh

15:01 < jrandom> well, if you'd like to make your own eepsite into a wiki you control, that'd be great too

15:01 < deer_> <newsbyte> indeed

15:01 < jrandom> though ugha.i2p has a pretty good uptime

15:01 < deer_> <newsbyte> I'll think about it

15:01 < jrandom> cool

15:02 < deer_> <newsbyte> 6 would be the freenet-i2p thingy

15:02 * jrandom winds up

15:02 * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed

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