{% extends "_layout.html" %} {% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 12{% endblock %} {% block content %}

I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 12

Courtesy of the wayback machine.

--- Log opened Wed Sep 25 00:57:27 2002

00:57 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP meeting | logs: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/

00:57 [Users #iip-dev]

00:57 [@mids] [ Dag] [ logger] [ nemesis] [ nop] [ Zwolly]

00:57 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 6 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]

00:57 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 1 secs

00:58 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+v logger] by mids

01:00 <@mids> Tue Sep 24 23:00:38 UTC 2002

01:00 <@mids> welcome et all

01:00 <@mids> the 12th meeting just started

01:01 <@mids> agenda:

01:01 <@mids> 1) website

01:01 <@mids> 2) nop's messages

01:01 <@mids> 3) question round

01:01 <@mids> website:

01:01 <@mids> new invisibleNET site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/ - new IIP site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip/

01:02 <@mids> for those who just joined:

01:02 <@mids> new invisibleNET site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/ - new IIP site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip/

01:02 <@mids> geeh

01:02 <@mids> I keep busy

01:02 < nop> ok

01:02 < nop> pause a sec

01:02 <@mids> for those who just joined:

01:02 <@mids> hehe

01:02 < nop> just add it to topic

01:03 < nop> ok

01:03 < nop> go

01:03 < nop> ;(

01:03 -!- mids changed the topic of #iip-dev to: IIP meeting | logs: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ | new invisibleNET site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/ - new IIP site online - http://www.invisiblenet.net/iip/

01:03 < nop> ;)

01:03 <@mids> .

01:04 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o nop] by mids

01:05 <@mids> any questions about this topic? otherwise we'll go to #2

01:06 <@nop> ok

01:06 <@nop> thanks to ellison

01:07 <@nop> and the distributedcity crew

01:07 <@nop> for helping out

01:07 <@nop> with the website

01:07 <@nop> we owe them a lot now ;)

01:07 <@nop> ok

01:07 <@nop> rc2 is coming out tomorrow

01:07 <@nop> we're just packaging it up

01:07 <@nop> and getting it ready for release

01:07 <@nop> new features

01:07 <@nop> are Forward Security

01:08 <@nop> Close Delay protocol for killed connections

01:08 <@nop> some bug fixes

01:08 <@nop> and upgrade features for future versions

01:08 <@nop> I think that's about it

01:08 <@nop> thank you all you users

01:08 <@nop> that use IIP

01:08 <@nop> without you

01:08 <@nop> the project would be a waste

01:08 <@nop> ;)

01:09 <@nop> so thank all of you for your loyalty and support by using the software

01:09 <@nop> I think that's it for my daily comments ;)

01:09 <@nop> oh

01:09 <@nop> wait

01:09 <@nop> thank you mids

01:09 <@nop> for assisting me with the website setup

01:09 <@nop> and for being patient with me

01:09 <@nop> thank you codeshark

01:09 <@nop> for setting up the software

01:09 <@mids> your welcome :)

01:09 <@nop> and handling inform

01:09 <@nop> thank you userx wherever you ar

01:10 <@nop> are

01:10 <@nop> for your hard work on core development

01:10 <@nop> and putting up with my ranting ;)

01:10 <@nop> thanks to chocolate

01:10 <@nop> for the informity and scripts that are needed

01:10 <@nop> thanks to cohesion even though long gone, for documentation in the past

01:10 <@nop> umm, like to thank the academy ... j/k

01:11 <@nop> everyone who has contributed thank you all

01:11 <@nop> .

01:11 <@mids> 3 hurrays for nop

01:11 <@mids> hurray

01:11 < Zwolly> hurray

01:11 < thecrypto> huzzah

01:11 <@nop> haha

01:11 < athena> that's 2 hurrays and 1 huzzah

01:11 <@nop> oh and DC people have been whispering in my ear to thank the Lord

01:11 <@nop> ;)

01:12 < Neo> lol

01:12 <@nop> well, on a side note, thank life for it is a neat thing ;) <-- no comments

01:12 <@nop> .

01:13 <@nop> any questions

01:13 <@nop> suggestions

01:13 <@nop> review

01:13 <@nop> ideas

01:13 <@nop> etc

01:13 < Neo> congratulations on the new site, looks great.

01:13 <@nop> ?

01:13 <@nop> thnx

01:13 <@mids> what is forward security?

01:13 <@nop> encryption can only be decrypted at time of session

01:13 <@nop> aka, you can't replay the messages

01:13 <@nop> and decrypt them

01:14 <@nop> as that key and signature doesn't exist anymore

01:14 <@nop> and will not be useful

01:14 <@nop> this is designed against log and replay attacks

01:14 <@nop> .

01:14 <@mids> thx

01:14 < athena> will you require public proxies to support these new protocol additions? (methinks all proxies should be forced to upgrade)

01:14 <@nop> athena

01:14 <@nop> it's a mandatory upgrade

01:14 <@nop> all relay holders

01:14 <@nop> will need to upgrade

01:15 <@nop> to rc2 relay

01:15 <@nop> and re-announce

01:15 < athena> ok, thanks

01:16 < sferic> I guess I cam ein late and missed something, but do you mean that we can't log anymore?

01:16 <@nop> no

01:16 <@nop> you can log

01:16 <@nop> what I'm saying

01:16 <@nop> is

01:16 <@nop> if you were a gov't agent

01:16 <@nop> spying on a relay

01:16 <@nop> and you were logging the encrypted traffic

01:16 <@nop> you couldn't then come and seize the ircd end node

01:16 <@nop> and use the network secret key

01:16 <@nop> to replay the traffic

01:16 <@nop> and decrypt it

01:17 < sferic> Ahh, thanks

01:17 <@nop> it eliminates the importance of the network secret key

01:17 <@nop> it's useless

01:17 <@nop> all it does is authenticate

01:17 <@nop> nothing more

01:17 <@nop> doesn't actually encrypt

01:17 <@nop> this covers two things

01:17 <@nop> man in the middle attack protection

01:17 <@nop> and log and relay protection

01:17 <@nop> aka forward security

01:17 <@nop> ;)

01:17 < Zwolly> is it now without central server.

01:18 <@nop> not yet

01:18 <@nop> that's 1.22

01:18 <@nop> 1.2

01:18 <@nop> correction

01:18 <@nop> 1.2.0 to be exact

01:18 <@nop> ;)

01:18 <@nop> after 1.1 basically is finished

01:18 <@mids> (I'd say that decentralization is 2.0)

01:19 < Zwolly> how about system resources memory cpu and bandwith

01:19 <@nop> well, 2.0 is a more perfect form of decentralization

01:19 <@nop> 1.2 we will attempt decentralization

01:20 < Tanthrix> how does true p2p work, you can't exactly scan IP blocks until you find someone? isn't some sort of a central server neccessary for initial connection?

01:20 <@nop> bootstrap is needed

01:20 <@nop> but once connected

01:20 <@nop> you have your own peer routes

01:20 <@nop> so we include a small node.ref

01:20 <@nop> which connects you in

01:20 <@nop> then from that point

01:20 < athena> thanthrix: find some friends you trust and trade node.refs :)

01:20 <@nop> you are dynamically updated from the network

01:21 <@nop> yes

01:21 <@nop> that's the idea

01:21 <@nop> in a nice world

01:21 <@nop> ;)

01:21 < Tanthrix> hehehe

01:21 <@mids> what if you dont have friends?

01:21 <@nop> then try to trust the signature on our software ;)

01:21 <@nop> haha

01:21 <@nop> yeah right, digital trust is rarely possible

01:22 < Dag> trust no one

01:22 < Dag> heh

01:22 < athena> awww...i'll be your friends, mids!

01:22 <@mids> hurray

01:22 < athena> huzzah

01:22 < Tanthrix> and grey-eyed athena comes to the rescue..

01:22 <@nop> hehe

01:22 <@nop> this website kicks ass

01:22 <@nop> far difference then the previous one

01:23 <@mids> kinda :)

01:23 <@nop> umm

01:23 <@nop> yeah

01:23 <@nop> that nice little under construction site sucked ass

01:24 < Tanthrix> heh..the new invisiblenet site looks like a page for some web-based corporation

01:25 <@mids> thanks... I guess :)

01:25 * mids points at ellison ... he is the one to blame; he gets all fame

01:25 < Tanthrix> hehehe

01:25 * ellison hides under some eye candy in the corner

01:26 < Zwolly> what is the gues about how stable it will be

01:26 <@mids> Zwolly: Trent is running on a rc2 relay for 2 days now

01:26 <@mids> without trouble

01:27 < Zwolly> ok.

01:27 <@mids> trent is the irc client/service with the heaviest traffic

01:27 <@mids> so... I think it is okay

01:27 < Zwolly> we will see

01:27 <@nop> the reason

01:27 < Zwolly> is it tomorrow already? hehe

01:28 <@nop> for the middle of the road

01:28 <@nop> corporate looking site

01:28 <@nop> is called steganography

01:28 <@nop> ;)

01:28 <@nop> our evil black hat activities

01:28 <@nop> wouldn't be good

01:28 <@nop> if it's obvious

01:28 <@nop> we're evil

01:28 <@nop> now would it

01:29 <@nop> so we blend in with the other evil

01:29 <@nop> and they won't notice us

01:29 <@nop> ;)

01:29 <@nop> honestly though

01:29 <@nop> it's just for attracting all audiences

01:29 <@mids> in 2 month there will be an invisibleNET sponsored golf tournament

01:29 <@nop> hahaha

01:30 <@nop> oh and the palladium efforts

01:30 <@nop> we bought it out

01:30 <@nop> ;)

01:31 <@nop> if you've noticed

01:31 <@nop> we own www.invisiblenet.net, www.invisiblenet.com, and www.invisiblenet.org

01:31 <@nop> we're evil

01:31 <@nop> ;)

01:31 <@nop> we've monopolized the market

01:31 <@nop> we're bastards

01:31 < Dag> what about getting one of those signs on the highway for cleaning up the roadside?

01:31 <@nop> yeah

01:31 <@nop> that's in the works

01:31 <@nop> as well as OEM'ing with Microsucks, and Intel

01:32 <@nop> haha

01:32 <@mids> euh

01:32 <@mids> you okay nop? :)

01:32 < Zwolly> ok other question what to do if there are warez channels and some big stupid country lets say america for example want this network doun can it run on its own from the european nodes

01:32 <@nop> yeah

01:32 <@nop> yes

01:32 <@nop> it will be possible to do that

01:33 <@nop> plus

01:33 <@nop> I advise for all warez activity

01:33 < Dag> I thought there was no /dcc

01:33 < Dag> in here

01:33 <@nop> to use a !anonymous mode channel

01:33 <@nop> doesn't mean you can't trade ftp sites

01:33 < Dag> well

01:33 <@nop> then for anyone monitoring

01:33 <@nop> who is saying what

01:33 < Dag> google trades warez ftp sites

01:33 <@nop> is a bit more tricky

01:33 <@nop> ;)

01:33 <@nop> exactly

01:33 < Dag> so does the newsgroups

01:33 <@nop> I doubt that we're a threat to that

01:33 < Dag> er do

01:33 <@nop> our main concern is #pedophilia public channels

01:34 < Dag> I did a /list one day

01:34 <@nop> as they would be a concerned threat to the existance of IIP as a whole

01:34 < Dag> and saw that channel in the list

01:34 <@mids> nah

01:34 < Dag> was a month or so ago

01:34 <@mids> I wouldnt be too affraid about that

01:34 <@nop> I like as little trouble as possible while were developing

01:34 <@mids> this is pure text based

01:34 <@nop> true

01:34 < nemesis> k

01:34 < nemesis> brb

01:35 * nemesis decides to go out and tar the way to the loung ()ŻŻŻŻ)ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ)))~~~~

01:35 < Dag> freenet has been overwhelmed with that crap

01:35 < Dag> at least last time I used frost

01:35 < Dag> it was a VERY high percentage of that crap on there

01:35 < athena> comes with the territory

01:35 < Dag> I think it would be good for people to spam freenet with random non porn images and media files

01:36 <@nop> yeah

01:36 <@nop> it's unfortunate

01:36 < Dag> just to make the percentage of crap go down

01:36 <@mids> I am using freenet for 3 or 4 years now and I have never seen any pedo crap...

01:36 <@nop> I accidentally downloaded trash on my hardrive because of their shit

01:36 <@nop> sickening

01:36 <@nop> I found one

01:36 <@mids> if you dont look for it, I dont think you will run into much

01:36 <@nop> by accident

01:36 <@nop> not true

01:36 <@nop> stuff gets renamed stuf

01:37 < Dag> mids I just had frost list all the files available

01:37 < Dag> as there are not many

01:37 < Dag> maybe a few hundred files max

01:37 < Dag> its not like gnutella

01:37 <@mids> well, if you view each of them.. you will probably run into stuff

01:37 < Dag> I didnt download anything

01:37 <@mids> but I have no reason to view a msc0001a.jpg

01:38 < Dag> I just saw the listings

01:38 < ellison> you guys seen www.bitzi.com?

01:38 < Dag> no

01:38 < Dag> isnt that some spyware

01:38 < ellison> it is a database of tons of files on p2p networks

01:38 < athena> no

01:38 <@nop> mids

01:38 < athena> the fingerprint mp3s

01:38 <@nop> check iip-dev

01:38 < ellison> you can enter a filename and size, and it'll tell you what it is

01:38 <@nop> this can't be true

01:38 <@nop> we have a few debian users

01:38 <@mids> nop: iip-dev email?

01:38 <@nop> yes

01:38 < Dag> ellison who is funding it?

01:39 < ellison> dag: dunno

01:40 < Dag> ellison I would bet its the riaa

01:40 < ellison> "Bitzi is a privately-held metadata publishing company based in San Francisco."

01:40 < Dag> or some such org

01:40 < Dag> ellision who pays the bills

01:40 < Dag> follow the $$$$$

01:40 < ellison> doubt it, I think you can use their service to differentiate between valid media files and the fake stuff uploaded by RIAA

01:41 < ellison> the founder posted on a RIAA thread and mentioned this use of the system

01:41 < Dag> find out who funds it

01:41 < ellison> i brought up their site because it seems to be a good way of avoiding nasty re-named stuff

01:41 < athena> bitzi is cool... their stuff is opensource

01:41 < Dag> one thing is certain in this day and age

01:41 < ellison> there's no reason you couldn't submit freenet files to the service

01:42 < ellison> dag: there would be concern if there was any evidence that they are funded by the RIAA, but it doesn't look like it to me

01:42 < Dag> ellison a md5->file content database

01:42 < Dag> would maybe work

01:42 < Dag> but can be abused as well

01:42 < Dag> its all about who controlls the data

01:43 * athena controls the data

01:43 < Dag> mallicous people can change the file slightly anyhow

01:43 < ellison> if course there is an issue of trust, but if you don't trust anyone then it'll be difficult to take part in a service-based economy...

01:43 < ellison> then the signature would change

01:44 < Dag> yes

01:44 < Dag> I am addressing your wanting to avoid known bad files

01:44 < ellison> if lots of people use bitzi, then all it takes is one person downloading and reporting a bad file

01:45 < Dag> I could write a gnutella server to on the fly randomly tag on some byte

01:45 < Dag> to a file

01:45 < ellison> and bitzi will be a more and more valuable service as the RIAA begins seeding P2P networks w/ crap...

01:45 < Dag> and change the file sig each time

01:45 < athena> bitzi is being integrated into limewire

01:45 < ellison> people could go to bitzi and find out which files are the good ones, and only download those

01:45 < Dag> I think that the riaa would find the service more usefull than not

01:46 < Dag> they are doing the riaas job for them

01:46 < ellison> it's also about finding the good ones - avoiding the bad ones is just 1/2 of the process

01:46 < Dag> finding keys to stuff they own

01:46 <@mids> hey aum

01:46 < aum> hi mids

01:47 <@nop> aum

01:47 <@nop> it's most likely

01:47 <@nop> the dh key exchange

01:47 <@nop> maybe handshaking with a bad or out of date node, or so

01:47 < aum> the max-out doesn't happen when i run iip as root

01:47 < aum> only when i run as user

01:47 <@nop> interesting

01:47 < athena> huh?

01:47 <@nop> have you checked your file descriptors for users

01:47 <@nop> how many are allowed and such?

01:48 < aum> well, all the files are owned by the same user as is running the daemno

01:48 < aum> it's a severe max-out when i run as user - a 1.5GHz box grinds to a halt - even the mouse can barely move

01:49 < Zwolly> people i need to go now it was fun and will install the new IIP as soon as possible (working at 7.00)

01:49 < aum> compliments on the new website nop

01:49 <@nop> thnx, thank ellison

01:50 <@nop> he did it

01:50 <@nop> ;)

01:50 < aum> it looks so professional that one could expect to go to the download page, and see a link saying 'download 30-day demo'

01:50 < aum> free software websites are rarely designed so professionally

01:50 <@mids> :)

01:50 <@nop> nor are they documented so well either

01:51 <@mids> nor do they have such cool irc channels

01:51 <@nop> we have kind of put the profesionallism back into open source ;)

01:51 <@nop> I spelled that badly

01:51 <@nop> haha

01:51 < aum> the word 'free' needs to appear on the front page IMO

01:51 <@nop> Professionalism

01:51 <@nop> it says open

01:51 <@nop> and available

01:51 <@nop> etc

01:51 < aum> the word 'open' is being used more and more with commercial software

01:51 <@nop> well, if people don't read

01:51 <@nop> they can't be educated

01:52 <@nop> and they shouldn't be running IIP anyway

01:52 < ellison> :-)

01:53 < aum> i saw a freaky film the other night - 'fight club'

01:53 <@nop> finally?

01:53 <@nop> haha

01:53 <@nop> read the book

01:53 <@nop> it's worse

01:53 < aum> wow!

01:53 <@mids> night all

01:53 < aum> good concept - taking down the credit card databases

01:53 < aum> night mids

01:53 < ellison> night mids

01:54 <@nop> night mids

01:54 <@nop> thnx again

01:54 <@nop> for your help

01:54 < nemesis> gn8 mids

01:54 * aum wonders if iip can take advantage of palladium features

01:55 * nop wonders what aum means by that

01:55 < aum> palladium could be a huge boon for p2p

01:55 <@nop> yes

01:55 <@nop> did you get my ip stego app?

01:55 < aum> palladium creates a private task space that not even root can access

01:55 < aum> back in 5...

01:55 <@nop> k

02:02 <@nop> ok

02:02 < aum> back

02:02 <@nop> wb

02:03 < aum> palladium can help piracy

02:03 < Dag> anyone here run vmware?

02:03 <@nop> I'm not convinced that palladium will be secure against the security researchers of the world

02:03 < aum> yes

02:03 <@nop> I do

02:03 <@nop> I run it

02:03 < aum> ditto

02:03 < Dag> how good a sandbox is it?

02:03 <@nop> great

02:03 < aum> brilliant

02:03 <@nop> I use it for my windows stuff

02:03 < Dag> that is my only real interest for it

02:03 <@nop> while running linux as the main one

02:03 <@nop> oh yeah

02:03 < Dag> is a sandbox potentia;

02:04 <@nop> yes

02:04 <@nop> it's great

02:04 <@nop> easy to set up too

02:04 < aum> beautiful thing about vmware is that you can choose to discard all disk changes

02:04 < Dag> well

02:04 < Dag> i imagine it leaks data to the swap

02:04 < aum> so if you install some windows fuckware, it's easy to get rid of it without having to hunt through c:\windows and registry etc

02:04 < Dag> well yes

02:05 < Dag> just delete the install

02:05 < Dag> I keep a good install file

02:05 < Dag> that has nothing on it

02:05 < aum> i like how vers 3 does usb

02:06 < Dag> its an amazing little app

02:06 < Dag> wish it was open sourced

02:06 < Dag> I looked at some open source attemps

02:06 < Dag> at the same thing

02:07 < Dag> and seemed to be stagnating

02:07 < Dag> bochs and the like

02:07 < aum> bochs is a nightmare

02:07 < nemesis> AS/400 are better than vmware ;p

02:08 < Dag> plex86 was another one I think

02:08 < Dag> I have run vmware and ran some tools like filemon and regmon

02:08 < Dag> etc

02:09 < Dag> and they seem to show that its a decent sandbox

02:09 < Dag> its not writting or reading to anything unusual

02:09 < Dag> from waht I saw

02:09 < Dag> winternals software rules

02:09 < Dag> sysinternals/winternals that is

02:10 < Dag> tcpview pro is another of their tools I like

02:10 < Dag> erd commander is another

02:11 < Dag> I am hoping someday soon that linux/bsd can have better ntfs support

02:12 < Dag> read only access (stable) is pretty limiting

02:14 <@nop> I'm so excited

02:14 <@nop> this toorcon speech might get me killed ;)

02:14 < nemesis> hrhr

02:14 < nemesis> nooo nooo

02:15 < nemesis> i linke the read only

02:15 <@nop> sorry

02:15 <@nop> I'm all interrupting

02:15 <@nop> ;)

02:15 < nemesis> because i stored some files in a ntfs5.1 part

02:15 < nemesis> ;)

02:15 < aum> nop - you better have a fast car out the back, and deliver the speech in a ski mask

02:16 <@nop> did you read what I'm talking about

02:16 <@nop> www.toorcon.org

02:16 < aum> actually, a ski mask would be a good gimmick - that, and a throat-mike wired up to a harmoniser box to change your voice

02:16 <@nop> and no I don't care if people know who I am, it's a risk I have to take for starting IIP anyway

02:17 <@nop> haha

02:17 <@nop> I have a friend who's an expert in make-up and disguise

02:17 <@nop> could do that too

02:17 < Dag> nop is it tammy faye"?

02:17 < Dag> katherine harris?

02:17 < aum> room will be fulla spooks

02:18 <@nop> http://www.toorcon.org/speakers/james.html

02:20 <@nop> making gov't irrelevant is the underlying tone

02:21 <@nop> I contradict the keynote speaker

02:21 <@nop> who works for nasa

02:23 < Dag> nasa is evil

02:23 < Dag> richard hoagland says so

02:23 < Dag> they are withholding proof aliens exist

02:24 <@nop> hehe

02:24 < Dag> they bombed the face on mars

02:24 <@nop> aum is quiet

02:24 <@nop> hehe

02:24 < Dag> to cover up that it really looked like a face

02:24 < Dag> even in high res scans

02:25 < Dag> if it were not for nasa, we would each have our own starship cruisers

02:25 < Dag> and vacation planets as we speak

02:25 < Dag> hell they even wont let that backstreet boy

02:25 < Dag> on their stupid space station

02:25 <@nop> haha

02:25 <@nop> nsync but yeah

02:26 < Dag> they dont want him to see who their real masters are

02:26 <@nop> haha

02:26 < Dag> and I dont mean the american taxpayer

02:26 <@nop> yep

02:27 < Dag> the government is not run by the taxpayer

02:27 <@nop> you know what I notice

02:27 <@nop> every corporate position in a company

02:27 < Dag> I think the fairest govt would be one were the number of votes you have is in line with the taxes you pay

02:27 <@nop> is desired by a selfish person

02:27 <@nop> right

02:27 < Dag> maybe 1 vote for each 5k in taxes you pay

02:28 < Dag> the government is run on theft

02:28 < Dag> steal steal steal

02:29 < Dag> rms is a commie too

02:29 < Dag> did you know that

02:29 <@nop> that's why they punish drug dealers

02:29 <@nop> because the gov't is stealing the money they make

02:29 <@nop> you notice

02:29 <@nop> they always wait

02:29 <@nop> till the dealer

02:29 <@nop> is making big money

02:29 <@nop> to get their bust

02:29 <@nop> they don't care about the lowly pot dealer

02:29 <@nop> they always like to let it continue

02:29 <@nop> till they know

02:29 < Dag> the us govt is the biggest drug dealer out there

02:29 <@nop> there is serious money coming in

02:30 <@nop> then bam

02:30 <@nop> robbin' from the dealer

02:30 < Dag> bo gritz says so

02:30 < Dag> harry brown for president

02:30 < Dag> enuf said

02:30 <@nop> hehe

02:30 <@nop> charlie brown for president

02:31 < Dag> what about snoopy

02:31 <@nop> he's cool

02:31 <@nop> he doesn't say much

02:31 <@nop> so yeah

02:31 < Dag> he always seemed level headed

02:31 < Dag> cept he hung out with that bird a little to much

02:31 < Dag> charlie brown was easily duped

02:32 < Dag> how many times he try to kick that damn football?

02:33 * aum is back

02:33 < Dag> how big is a freenet install?

02:33 <@nop> not big, 200 megs

02:33 <@nop> for datastore

02:33 <@nop> ;)

02:33 < aum> default freenet datastore is 1GB these days

02:34 < Dag> yikes

02:34 <@nop> what?

02:34 < aum> on another subject, i uninstalled gentoo last night and went back to debian => bliss

02:34 <@nop> really?

02:34 < aum> the source-based distros are too flaky just now

02:34 < Dag> go back to freebsd

02:35 < Dag> er forward

02:35 < Dag> heh

02:35 < aum> debian 4 me - huge catalog of software, ready to urn

02:35 < aum> s/urn/run/

02:35 < Dag> well you running it as a server or desktop?

02:35 < aum> debian stuff works wight out of the box - no need to read megs of manuals and grope through scripts

02:36 < Dag> I always compile my servers

02:36 < aum> i've had debian woody on my server for over a year - switched desktop from windows back in feb

02:37 < aum> my desktop went windoes -> mandrake -> debian -> sourcemage -> gentoo -> debian

02:37 < Dag> you ever try knoppix?

02:37 < aum> what's that?

02:37 < aum> a distro?

02:37 < Dag> is a livefilesystem linux distro

02:37 < Dag> based off debian

02:37 < aum> huh?

02:37 < aum> what does 'livefilesystem' mean?

02:37 < Dag> the whole thing runs in ram and cd

02:38 < Dag> boot off the cd

02:38 < Dag> and away you go

02:39 < Dag> its pretty good about hw detection

02:39 < Dag> runs kde and even has openoffice

02:39 < Dag> heh

02:39 < Dag> I dont run any linux servers anymore

02:39 < Dag> but its fun to have around

02:39 < aum> Dag: freeBSD?

02:40 < Dag> free/openbsd

02:40 < Dag> solaris

02:40 < aum> what's the big advantage?

02:40 < Dag> depending on HW

02:40 < Dag> openbsd has a good security audit

02:40 < Dag> of anything they release

02:40 < Dag> no distro of linux even comes close

02:41 < aum> but linux 'ploits get fixed within 24 hours

02:41 <@nop> true

02:41 < Dag> do you check for exploits and patch every day?

02:41 <@nop> I do

02:41 < Dag> well

02:41 < Dag> come now

02:41 < Dag> heh

02:41 <@nop> I'm on bugtraq

02:41 <@nop> and I sometimes post

02:41 <@nop> so I keep my eye out

02:42 < Dag> openbsd has had ONE remote exploit in 6 years

02:42 <@nop> it's my daytime job

02:42 <@nop> openBSD is very conscious

02:42 <@nop> which is good

02:42 <@nop> proves

02:42 <@nop> that all it takes

02:42 <@nop> is more conscious coders

02:42 <@nop> and a conscious framework

02:43 < Dag> if you install redhat without patches

02:43 < Dag> its a guarantee you will be hacked

02:43 < Dag> I use to work in a NOC

02:43 < Dag> it would piss me off when other lazy coworkers would install rh 6.2 etc

02:43 < Dag> for a client

02:44 < Dag> and never put any patches on

02:44 < Dag> one guy worked there 3 years and his idea of rebooting a box was to hit the power switch

02:46 < aum> power switch? did he think it was windows?

02:46 < nemesis> lol

02:46 * aum sometimes sees the linux BSOD screensaver

02:47 < Dag> there was a time like 4 years back that anyone could get a tech job

02:47 < Dag> now people who have a brain and experience

02:47 < Dag> cant find sh*t

02:47 < aum> an open source advocate here in new zealand wrote to the Minister for Information Technology expressing concerns about windows security vulnerabilities - Minister wrote back saying "we don't have a security problem - we use firewalls"

02:48 < Dag> you hear the latest with XP and their help center allowing you to delete files by visiting a url

02:48 < Dag> heh

02:48 < Dag> there is a story at the register uk about it

02:49 < Dag> there is even a link to have the exploit remove the help center from your machine

02:49 < Dag> and in doing so removes the ablity to be exploited

02:50 < Dag> Win-XP Help Center request wipes your HD

02:50 < Dag> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27074.html

03:03 < nemesis> erm, sorry

03:03 < nemesis> question

03:03 < nemesis> can i ban an port with bind to an nic?

04:14 < nemesis> cu@all für genau 50 mins ins bett legen dann duschen und in arbeit fahren *grummel*

08:05 < nop> sheesh

08:05 < nop> still here

--- Log closed Wed Sep 25 10:20:49 2002

{% endblock %}