{% filter escape %}
2009 Feb 10 20:58:32 dev meeting eh?
2009 Feb 10 20:59:27 -*- dream turns on devo
2009 Feb 10 21:00:25 dream: ah.. glad you're here too :)
2009 Feb 10 21:00:51 0) Hello
2009 Feb 10 21:00:55 you are?
2009 Feb 10 21:00:58 1) I2P 0.7
2009 Feb 10 21:01:02 2) Syndie
2009 Feb 10 21:01:06 3) Donations
2009 Feb 10 21:01:15 4) ????
2009 Feb 10 21:01:21 5) A short poem recital by zzz
2009 Feb 10 21:01:39 0) Hello
2009 Feb 10 21:01:53 hi
2009 Feb 10 21:02:00 welcome all to the #207th dev meeting
2009 Feb 10 21:02:05 'lo
2009 Feb 10 21:02:20 'lo!
2009 Feb 10 21:02:40 welcome!
2009 Feb 10 21:02:43 so, let's start by covering what's happened since April 10 2007, if anything
2009 Feb 10 21:02:48 Just to put that in perspective it's been nearly 2 years since hte last one
2009 Feb 10 21:03:06 well... bush is out....obama in....
2009 Feb 10 21:03:36 lol USA
2009 Feb 10 21:03:51 1) I2P 0.7
2009 Feb 10 21:03:56 I guess the 0.7 release note is a good idea what happend to I2P
2009 Feb 10 21:04:20 Well it looks like the rollout of 0.7 has gone fairly smoothly
2009 Feb 10 21:04:22 with about 84% network coverage now
2009 Feb 10 21:04:29 not bad
2009 Feb 10 21:04:48 :-)
2009 Feb 10 21:04:48 How much ahs the network grown since 0.7?
2009 Feb 10 21:04:48 A big cheer to the dev team and release crew for getting it out of the door
2009 Feb 10 21:04:52 one bug i may point out that i and another user have noticed though is
2009 Feb 10 21:04:52 or even since Christmas?
2009 Feb 10 21:05:21 -*- welt waits for stats.i2p to load..
2009 Feb 10 21:05:28 -=- Sie sind nun als welterde bekannt
2009 Feb 10 21:05:31 hottuna_: a fairly slow but steady growth if the stats are anything to go by
2009 Feb 10 21:05:41 adding new private hosts in susidns requirs manual editing of the privathosts.txt file
2009 Feb 10 21:06:08 zzz: wasn't that the bug you fixed recently?
2009 Feb 10 21:06:18 or was that sth different?
2009 Feb 10 21:06:25 the stats shows a steady slow growing
2009 Feb 10 21:06:35 yeah, i broke it in 0.7, just fixed it yesterday, will be in -4
2009 Feb 10 21:06:40 welterde: yes, he seens to have fixed it
2009 Feb 10 21:07:05 something to look forward to in 7.0.1
2009 Feb 10 21:07:14 zzz: good.. that's done then
2009 Feb 10 21:07:16 eerm 0.7.1
2009 Feb 10 21:07:19 more users :-)
2009 Feb 10 21:07:22 sorry about that
2009 Feb 10 21:07:35 what are you guys going to do about network lag...its a growing problem it seems , on the weekends i2p seems overloaded
2009 Feb 10 21:07:56 maybe some more streaming lib tweaks?
2009 Feb 10 21:07:57 ethier i think more users is good
2009 Feb 10 21:08:00 zzz: well you've fixed and improved enough stuff to be allowed the odd breakage :)
2009 Feb 10 21:08:33 I've suggested motivating user to share by having some ratio indicator on the console
2009 Feb 10 21:08:57 that sounds good
2009 Feb 10 21:09:14 network load went big last month
2009 Feb 10 21:09:17 freak, i'm looking at tweaking the capacity calculation in the peer profiles just a little, to react better when things get busy.
2009 Feb 10 21:09:20 months, looks fairly well so far
2009 Feb 10 21:09:51 zzz: wicked :)
2009 Feb 10 21:09:55 this may be ambitious bout how about using a cron job in linux or whatever windows uses to volunteer bandwidth to i2p when their computer is not being used
2009 Feb 10 21:10:17 these things have to be adjusted with great care though, and it takes a full release cycle to test any change
2009 Feb 10 21:10:21 a scheduler would be and awesome solution aswell
2009 Feb 10 21:10:24 to dumb it down
2009 Feb 10 21:10:28 The publicity push for release 0.7 seems to have had a marginal effect on numbers, but not nearly the impact I would have hoped for
2009 Feb 10 21:10:41 detect when network / cpu is idle and use it/ dont use when it is
2009 Feb 10 21:10:43 zzz: that recent addition to I2CP doesn't allow that yet, right?
2009 Feb 10 21:10:52 some good coverage in german news sites though
2009 Feb 10 21:11:04 but slashdot/digg/reddit was rather pathetic
2009 Feb 10 21:11:09 allow what welterde ?
2009 Feb 10 21:11:14 <-- Roomster (romster@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:11:29 zzz: to change the ratio/up-bw/down-bw from outside the routerconsole
2009 Feb 10 21:11:29 badger: it needs some time for users to get known to it and keep steady with it :-)
2009 Feb 10 21:11:32 and a defult auto startup registry entry would be nice or a simple shell script for unix
2009 Feb 10 21:12:04 no welterde it has nothing to do with that
2009 Feb 10 21:12:08 dunno about the pr.. i suppose that our 'brand name' will grow every time we have a new release adn a pr wave to that
2009 Feb 10 21:12:13 zzz: thought so :/
2009 Feb 10 21:12:56 hopefully the gulli interview w/ me will be published soon, but I haven't heard from him in a week
2009 Feb 10 21:13:06 is i2p ready to ask for volunteer bandwidth from sponsors? (other than me with my tiny connection)
2009 Feb 10 21:13:39 hmm.. that might be worth a try
2009 Feb 10 21:13:50 I don't think anyone has ever said no to volunteered bandwidth.
2009 Feb 10 21:14:01 --> Roomster (romster@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:14:12 the tor network has a lot of sponsored nodes, but on the other hand a lot of nodes on the same subnet would be suspicious to users and offer someone more control over the network
2009 Feb 10 21:14:37 i think we "fixed" that already
2009 Feb 10 21:14:59 sponsoring would'nt be a bad idea
2009 Feb 10 21:14:59 jas a simple html tab on the mainpage?
2009 Feb 10 21:14:59 just*
2009 Feb 10 21:15:05 randomly placed nodes by individual volunteers seems to be safer
2009 Feb 10 21:15:05 but not as practical
2009 Feb 10 21:15:15 most people by nature will leech
2009 Feb 10 21:15:26 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:15:44 I don't think that's necessarily true unixfr3ak, but it's good to prepare for non-participants.
2009 Feb 10 21:16:21 for example
2009 Feb 10 21:16:40 someone who just starts the i2p router, and has no idea what it does and runs i2phex
2009 Feb 10 21:16:49 constantly downloading
2009 Feb 10 21:17:11 mabye the defualt bandwith should be changed
2009 Feb 10 21:17:22 has been changed in 0.7
2009 Feb 10 21:17:34 or users should be asked for connection speed during the install for more accurate bandwith shareing limits
2009 Feb 10 21:18:26 or mabye a virus that installs i2p as a backdoor :P
2009 Feb 10 21:18:34 heh
2009 Feb 10 21:18:40 would be a great idea.. the installer should support that, right?
2009 Feb 10 21:19:08 the first or the second? :>
2009 Feb 10 21:19:08 my joke or asking the connection bandwith?
2009 Feb 10 21:19:23 first) probably yes
2009 Feb 10 21:19:26 it should be a line or 2 in a config file somewhere
2009 Feb 10 21:19:39 the one without the :P
2009 Feb 10 21:20:59 download limits for users who don't share upstream bandwidth?
2009 Feb 10 21:21:15 sounds intresting
2009 Feb 10 21:21:20 but
2009 Feb 10 21:21:33 i dont think we should go to such desprate measures yet...
2009 Feb 10 21:21:38 by default it shares up to 100% of the bandwidth unixfr3ak. once it gets a few client tunnels, the majority is spent on intermediate ones.
2009 Feb 10 21:21:45 don't routers already punish other routers, who don't route tunnels?
2009 Feb 10 21:21:46 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:22:00 yes
2009 Feb 10 21:22:00 and I think i2p is already load balanced. I sure cannot download more than I upload on the bandwidth tab.
2009 Feb 10 21:22:25 i think so but, if many people leech at one time it will still put a hevy load on the network
2009 Feb 10 21:22:32 perhaps this is just a case of being more informative to first time users
2009 Feb 10 21:22:35 especially if thier ips are dynamic
2009 Feb 10 21:22:46 http://stats.i2p/cgi-bin/tot.cgi?a=bandwidthReceiveBps.5m&s=365&u=y
2009 Feb 10 21:22:56 make it clear that giving back to the network improves your experience
2009 Feb 10 21:23:07 yes
2009 Feb 10 21:23:18 and to run it when they are not using thier pc
2009 Feb 10 21:23:36 insted of just letting thier connection that they are paying for be idle
2009 Feb 10 21:23:51 most people turn their computers off, it's really sad
2009 Feb 10 21:24:09 yes
2009 Feb 10 21:24:12 paying their ISP per month, when they could instead for the price of 4 light bulbs...
2009 Feb 10 21:24:15 i think most people understand this - i even think most people who use i2p are geeks themself ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:24:32 anyway moving on - anything else to add for 1) I2P 0.7?
2009 Feb 10 21:24:55 for now yes
2009 Feb 10 21:25:16 -*- welterde waits for his signal..
2009 Feb 10 21:25:20 but that may change in the future
2009 Feb 10 21:25:25 badger: no
2009 Feb 10 21:25:25 2) Syndie
2009 Feb 10 21:25:37 ok then :)
2009 Feb 10 21:25:37 -*- badger passes the 70s boom mike over to welterde
2009 Feb 10 21:25:45 *mic
2009 Feb 10 21:26:15 as you may (or may not) i recently finished the effort to apply these patches from MOSFET
2009 Feb 10 21:26:20 +know
2009 Feb 10 21:26:25 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:26:35 leave e out on the forums i don't use them :P , brb cigarette
2009 Feb 10 21:26:51 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:27:14 which should fix some bugs and disable that (imho) b0rked default ui
2009 Feb 10 21:27:26 instead the swt one is used, which most users find easier
2009 Feb 10 21:27:42 w0rd
2009 Feb 10 21:28:11 hmm?
2009 Feb 10 21:28:30 it's nice to hear someone was working on getting failed synchronizations to retry.
2009 Feb 10 21:28:40 welterde: sorry, old dev meeting joke
2009 Feb 10 21:28:59 is there a new public syndie archive somwhere?
2009 Feb 10 21:29:06 anyway.. i hope i have time soon to replace that b0rked ;) index thingy
2009 Feb 10 21:29:09 badger: yup
2009 Feb 10 21:29:25 http://syndie.welterde.(i2p|de)/
2009 Feb 10 21:29:52 making it possible to run syndie using a remote database is important I'd say, to make it easier for people to run their own archives.
2009 Feb 10 21:29:54 but you can't post there (yet) as it is just a static archive
2009 Feb 10 21:30:47 have to that one to the default ones too
2009 Feb 10 21:30:56 will do that soonish
2009 Feb 10 21:31:16 so syndie work goes on
2009 Feb 10 21:31:32 yup
2009 Feb 10 21:31:54 currently trying to profile syndie..
2009 Feb 10 21:32:20 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:32:29 but wasn't able to spend much time in that area though..
2009 Feb 10 21:32:45 <-- hottuna_ (hottuna@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:32:59 so much work to do...
2009 Feb 10 21:33:14 yes :/
2009 Feb 10 21:33:17 running syndie in text mode is tricky, since the interface seems to be slipping behind its current behavior
2009 Feb 10 21:33:17 usually it works if you just leave it in --cli, but when it freezes there's no real indication.
2009 Feb 10 21:33:36 --> hottuna_ (hottuna@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:33:41 yeah.. the cli is b0rked too currently :/
2009 Feb 10 21:33:56 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:34:00 imho we should seperate syndie into multiple parts, eg. libsyndie, gui, cli, ...
2009 Feb 10 21:34:12 makes sense to me
2009 Feb 10 21:34:19 that should make writing custom extensions, etc. easier
2009 Feb 10 21:34:29 What sort of stuff would libsyndie cover?
2009 Feb 10 21:34:36 early v0.0.1 syndie's UI was just a top on the cli binary
2009 Feb 10 21:34:48 but it seems that idea got lost enroute
2009 Feb 10 21:34:55 it even has the text console today.
2009 Feb 10 21:35:23 dream: message decoding, archive syncing, etc. etc.
2009 Feb 10 21:35:25 <-- epoch (epoch@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Ping timeout)
2009 Feb 10 21:35:34 most of the logic
2009 Feb 10 21:36:06 so libsyndie is pretty much an interface over the database, and maybe the archive/ directory?
2009 Feb 10 21:36:09 aye, gui, cli and webtop should just be a light wrapper
2009 Feb 10 21:36:10 imho we should keep gui/cli seperate from the program logic
2009 Feb 10 21:36:42 dream: the archive isn't used to store anything.. it's just used for serving the archive
2009 Feb 10 21:37:02 I know that.
2009 Feb 10 21:37:12 --> epoch (epoch@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:37:14 but as cli/webtop use it we should put it into the libsyndie as well
2009 Feb 10 21:37:15 -=- Modus #i2p [+v epoch] durch chanserv
2009 Feb 10 21:37:15 So I guess only the web server would need to deal with that directory.
2009 Feb 10 21:37:35 filling it and synching from it, sort of like a postfix mail queue.
2009 Feb 10 21:38:00 but we should only generate/sync it, when we are actually using it.. not like now..
2009 Feb 10 21:38:08 where it is always generated/synced...
2009 Feb 10 21:38:24 <-- altGuest (chatzilla@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:39:18 I don't see a problem with only using the archive/ directory for the webserver. It's really just a convenience so you can use existing static file serving functionality.
2009 Feb 10 21:40:07 there should be a cli command like generate_archive or something like that imho
2009 Feb 10 21:40:13 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:40:57 and we should bring that import.cgi back, so we can run a mostly static archive, while still being able to post
2009 Feb 10 21:41:04 or... hmmm...
2009 Feb 10 21:41:04 what would you do with that archive using the client interface?
2009 Feb 10 21:41:15 rsync with a remote site?
2009 Feb 10 21:41:26 that's how syndie.welterde.(i2p|de) works ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:41:31 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:41:43 trouble with a static archive is that keeping the filesystem up to date with the database is a task that is similar to designing a database.
2009 Feb 10 21:41:59 hmm.. not really
2009 Feb 10 21:42:05 as it's one-way only
2009 Feb 10 21:43:17 this may be a little off-topic but has anyone considered a datastore function?
2009 Feb 10 21:43:20 so using a hypothetical --cli someone creates a message. They then generate_archive after creating it? Sounds suspiciously similar to commiting a transaction after inserting.
2009 Feb 10 21:43:52 also in i2phex as i told Complication previously the bitzi lookup in i2phex inst anonymous
2009 Feb 10 21:43:55 magicbutton()
2009 Feb 10 21:44:04 dream: uhm.. no
2009 Feb 10 21:44:17 ...i2phex checks bitzi.com? that's nuts
2009 Feb 10 21:44:37 yes
2009 Feb 10 21:44:39 unixfr3ak: there was some work in direction of freenet afair
2009 Feb 10 21:44:43 welterde, so then their message never goes into the archive/ directory and can't get synchronized...
2009 Feb 10 21:45:20 dream: no.. just mean that a transaction is a bit different
2009 Feb 10 21:45:27 for example: you don't edit anything
2009 Feb 10 21:45:33 (except for the index maybe)
2009 Feb 10 21:46:02 --> altGuest (chatzilla@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:46:02 generate_archive just dumps the db and updates the indexes while doing that
2009 Feb 10 21:46:41 right click a file
2009 Feb 10 21:47:07 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:47:20 and view bitzi ticket takes you to the non-anon site
2009 Feb 10 21:47:20 lucky my browser is proxyd by i2p, and my alternate one tor
2009 Feb 10 21:47:31 so how do you get your new database content into the archive? What if syndie dies after inserting a message, but before you save it to the archive/ directory?
2009 Feb 10 21:47:39 0_0 looks like spongebob missed the meeting
2009 Feb 10 21:47:57 dream: nothing.. it's just not archive/
2009 Feb 10 21:48:16 but it will be on the next successful run of generate_archive
2009 Feb 10 21:48:33 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:49:01 what I'd do is let the client run the web server, and the web server checks archive/ and pulls out all the messages in the db not already there. Or just serve the db messages directly.
2009 Feb 10 21:49:23 generate_archive doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want the client to have to keep track of.
2009 Feb 10 21:49:50 problem is.. you can't run syndie on every machine
2009 Feb 10 21:50:18 for example this server (i2p2.de/welterde.de) has reached it's limited
2009 Feb 10 21:50:36 it will heavily swap when i run syndie on it..
2009 Feb 10 21:50:41 so i have to run it locally
2009 Feb 10 21:50:46 yeah
2009 Feb 10 21:51:06 no problem if i had reasonable upload... which i don't have
2009 Feb 10 21:51:19 which most adsl-users don't have..
2009 Feb 10 21:51:45 anyway - good work with the all the patches welterde - can we expect a release in the not-too-distant-future?
2009 Feb 10 21:51:47 so it's either a static archive or one that is slow as hell
2009 Feb 10 21:52:08 badger: i think i'll switch from a to b (alpha to beta) soonish
2009 Feb 10 21:52:16 great
2009 Feb 10 21:52:40 anything else to add about future dev?
2009 Feb 10 21:52:56 (syndie)
2009 Feb 10 21:53:10 n0pe
2009 Feb 10 21:53:19 ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:53:24 righty in that case
2009 Feb 10 21:53:30 3) Donations
2009 Feb 10 21:53:49 -*- badger swings the mic over to eche|on
2009 Feb 10 21:54:00 it's open again!
2009 Feb 10 21:54:18 I created a paypal account and linked it on i2p website
2009 Feb 10 21:54:39 <-- gloin (gloin@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Connection reset by peer)
2009 Feb 10 21:54:42 :D
2009 Feb 10 21:54:47 coolio
2009 Feb 10 21:54:50 wicked
2009 Feb 10 21:54:52 but the buttons links to https:// sites of paypal, works not for eepsite yet
2009 Feb 10 21:55:01 yeah I guess that's an advantage welterde
2009 Feb 10 21:55:08 til yet no entry on that front
2009 Feb 10 21:55:20 <-- awxcnx091 (ce518902@irc2p) hat das IRC verlassen (Quit: leaving)
2009 Feb 10 21:55:20 eche|on: maybe you should add some notes on how to tell you what you should do with it
2009 Feb 10 21:55:29 and undecided about a acc for 2ndlive
2009 Feb 10 21:55:31 can you add a link from the donate page to the halloffame page, and/or provide more info on what donations will be used for
2009 Feb 10 21:55:39 I still think whatever creates the archive should synchronize more than just dump.
2009 Feb 10 21:55:48 yup
2009 Feb 10 21:56:02 are you planning to support bounties too?
2009 Feb 10 21:56:10 welterde: acked
2009 Feb 10 21:56:13 you could just use apache
2009 Feb 10 21:56:17 dream: premature optimization ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:56:19 zzz: acked
2009 Feb 10 21:56:22 --> gloin (gloin@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 21:56:24 oops 3)
2009 Feb 10 21:56:24 I don't have any money sorry T_T
2009 Feb 10 21:56:28 we need a list of stuff to buy/not to buy with donations
2009 Feb 10 21:56:37 and shouldnt echelon and welterde subscriptions really be listed as expenses instead?
2009 Feb 10 21:56:40 what web server does i2p include?
2009 Feb 10 21:56:51 badger: yeah, donations are "for all funds" or dedicated for a bounty
2009 Feb 10 21:57:04 grand
2009 Feb 10 21:57:19 and in paypal there should be a textfield in which you can enter the goal of the money :-)
2009 Feb 10 21:57:33 you could also put a news link on the front page that donations are open
2009 Feb 10 21:57:36 If I donate 1000 EUR do I get a Hot Tuna i2P t-shirt?
2009 Feb 10 21:57:51 but I cannot donate to myself ;-)
2009 Feb 10 21:58:02 hottuna_: say yes! ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:58:16 no prob so far, I wait for the first one and announce it ;-)
2009 Feb 10 21:58:35 you had your chance to come to 25c3 and get a shirt
2009 Feb 10 21:58:47 there is still a 26c3 ;)
2009 Feb 10 21:58:59 acked, zzz - nice idea
2009 Feb 10 22:00:32 so no more from my site to topic donations
2009 Feb 10 22:00:51 -*- welterde waits for paste to load..
2009 Feb 10 22:00:59 --> awxcnx091 (ce518902@irc2p) ist in den Channel #i2p gekommen
2009 Feb 10 22:01:16 in that case:
2009 Feb 10 22:01:22