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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 70{% endblock %}
{% block content %}<h3>Tuesday, December 23, 2003 22:00:00 CET</h3>
<div class="irclog">
<p>[22:01] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 0) hi </p>
<p>[22:01] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 1) administravia </p>
<p>[22:01] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 2) dev status </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 3) services on i2p </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 4) app status [ns, im, i2ptunnel, ...] </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 5) ??? </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;thecrypto&gt; wow, i picked a good time</p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 0) hi </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; yes you did thecrypto :) </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hi </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;jrand0m&gt; welcome to meeting 70 </p>
<p>[22:02] &lt;TC&gt; woot</p>
<p>[22:03] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 1) administravia </p>
<p>[22:03] &lt;thecrypto&gt; w00t!</p>
<p>[22:03] &lt;jrand0m&gt; mailing list, get on it for announcements / discussion / etc: (Link: http://i2p.dnsalias.net/pipermail/i2p/)http://i2p.dnsalias.net/pipermail/i2p/ </p>
<p>[22:04] &lt;jrand0m&gt; bugzilla: tell me where shit is broken (and perhaps look for ways you can help! :) (Link: http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/index.cgi)http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/index.cgi </p>
<p>[22:04] &lt;jrand0m&gt; i think thats it for administravia </p>
<p>[22:05] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (note that i'm just talking i2p stuff here, i don't see any iip things on the agenda) </p>
<p>[22:05] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 2) dev status </p>
<p>[22:05] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 0.2.3 as originally released had a chunk of bugs, so there have been perhaps a dozen subsequent builds, but none quite stable enough to be called 0.2.3.1 yet </p>
<p>[22:06] &lt;jrand0m&gt; i'm rebuilding the tunnel management subsystem now, since that is the source of the bugs and 0.3 (scheduled for jan 1) needs the new pooling tunnel manager anyway. </p>
<p>[22:07] &lt;jrand0m&gt; making good progress on that, I'm hoping it'll be ready for use in the next day or two (i'm testing it now) </p>
<p>[22:07] &lt;jrand0m&gt; a description of whats up with that is on (Link: http://wiki.invisiblenet.net/iip-wiki?TunnelManagement)http://wiki.invisiblenet.net/iip-wiki?TunnelManagement </p>
<p>[22:08] &lt;jrand0m&gt; duck among others have been incredibly helpful in submitting bugs, logs, and helping track down a ton of problems and memory / cpu issues. </p>
<p>[22:08] &lt;jrand0m&gt; y'all rule, I really appreciate the help </p>
<p>[22:09] * thecrypto pulls out the "APPLAUSE" sign</p>
<p>[22:09] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ;) </p>
<p>[22:09] &lt;jrand0m&gt; the # of routers have also been increasing... on avg we're at around 9-12 </p>
<p>[22:09] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (up from 3-5 a week ago, and 6-8 in 0.2.2 times) </p>
<p>[22:10] &lt;jrand0m&gt; the next release will improve the reliability dramatically </p>
<p>[22:10] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (aka it won't get out the door until it does) </p>
<p>[22:10] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, 3) services on i2p </p>
<p>[22:11] &lt;jrand0m&gt; fillament started hosting his flog on i2p :) </p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;FillaMent&gt; and I've got another trick up my sleeve =)</p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ooOOoo :) </p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;luckypunk&gt; tw</p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;luckypunk&gt; hm</p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;luckypunk&gt; hello.</p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;luckypunk&gt; Does it work yet?</p>
<p>[22:12] &lt;jrand0m&gt; duck started a new irc server on i2p with dcc disabled (for security reasons) plus some ident-ish features </p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;luckypunk&gt; lol</p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;jrand0m&gt; luckypunk&gt; people with 350Mhz machines will need to wait until 0.3 is out before being able to use it effectively ;) </p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;luckypunk&gt; yes, but is i2p reliable enough for that?</p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (but subscribe to the i2p mailing list so you can get announcements) </p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;luckypunk&gt; i overclocked to 377</p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;luckypunk&gt; does that help?</p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;luckypunk&gt; lol</p>
<p>[22:13] &lt;jrand0m&gt; i was chatting on that irc server the other day, until my irc client b0rked </p>
<p>[22:14] &lt;jrand0m&gt; but yes, things are a bit unreliable at the moment while the tunnel management subsystem is rebuilt </p>
<p>[22:14] &lt;luckypunk&gt; well, im happy my computer didn't molassify overnight again.</p>
<p>[22:15] &lt;jrand0m&gt; any other new services i've missed?   </p>
<p>[22:15] &lt;luckypunk&gt; well, when .3 comes out...t here'll be a yahooish service.</p>
<p>[22:15] &lt;luckypunk&gt; ;)</p>
<p>[22:15] &lt;jrand0m&gt; cool </p>
<p>[22:15] &lt;TC&gt; i should run somthing else</p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;TC&gt; whats a service we need that doesnt require messing with apache?</p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;jrand0m&gt; your bbs is kick ass tc, i just can't wait until i2p is reliable enough for me to get to it consistently </p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;jrand0m&gt; you could run a telnet based games server (e.g. adventure, etc) </p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;luckypunk&gt; lol</p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;TC&gt; hah</p>
<p>[22:16] &lt;FillaMent&gt; MUSH</p>
<p>[22:17] &lt;luckypunk&gt; i'll do that... it's low demand.</p>
<p>[22:17] &lt;luckypunk&gt; and i already had about 300k of tinymush code.</p>
<p>[22:17] &lt;jrand0m&gt; yeah, the whole mush/mud/moo/ style thaang </p>
<p>[22:17] &lt;luckypunk&gt; heh</p>
<p>[22:17] &lt;TC&gt; what about ultima online?</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;thecrypto&gt; ooh that's be fun</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;luckypunk&gt; "Slay FreeNet Databugs!"</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;luckypunk&gt; TC: =|</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;thecrypto&gt; we need to get a telnet client then</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;luckypunk&gt; maybe if we all obtained 6 ghz computers with oc-128 lines. :D</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;jrand0m&gt; thecrypto&gt; /bin/telnet + i2ptunnel </p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;thecrypto&gt; ...yeah</p>
<p>[22:18] &lt;thecrypto&gt; i'm sloew</p>
<p>[22:19] &lt;thecrypto&gt; :)</p>
<p>[22:19] &lt;jrand0m&gt; any other low hanging fruit for services?  a mail server (pop3/imap without internet mail) would rule </p>
<p>[22:19] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (and if it could /receive/ internet email that'd rule too) </p>
<p>[22:21] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, 4) app status </p>
<p>[22:21] &lt;jrand0m&gt; naming service </p>
<p>[22:21] &lt;jrand0m&gt; wiht / co was here earlier, but not now </p>
<p>[22:21] &lt;jrand0m&gt; MrEcho&gt; how goes? </p>
<p>*** MrEcho is echo@anon.iip (Digital_Light) </p>
<p>*** on channels: #iip-dev #anonymous </p>
<p>*** on irc via server anon.iip (Official IIP )</p>
<p>*** MrEcho has been idle 3 minutes, signed on at Thu Jan 01 01:00:00 1970 </p>
<p>[22:23] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, perhaps we'll get back to that </p>
<p>[22:23] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hosts.txt has been growing as destinations have come online </p>
<p>[22:23] &lt;jrand0m&gt; there's a bot on the jabber server that will let you register / fetch entries </p>
<p>[22:24] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (plus the hosts.txt distributed with new installs is managed in cvs and mirrored at (Link: http://i2p.dnsalias.net/i2p/hosts.txt)http://i2p.dnsalias.net/i2p/hosts.txt) </p>
<p>[22:24] &lt;jrand0m&gt; next up, IM </p>
<p>[22:24] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hi thecrypto :) </p>
<p>[22:24] &lt;jrand0m&gt; welcome back </p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; hi</p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; i2pim is being started from scratch</p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; i need to figure out how this network works but tearing apart ATalk and slowly putting it back together</p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; so it's slowly coming along</p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;jrand0m&gt; word </p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; i don't know if i can get group chat working</p>
<p>[22:25] &lt;thecrypto&gt; but it's an idea</p>
<p>[22:26] &lt;jrand0m&gt; you had mentioned the idea of 'tossing around the baton' style of group chat - not centralized, but still workable... I think that might be a way to go </p>
<p>[22:26] &lt;thecrypto&gt; it might involve some difficult baton passing to get it, but if anyone has an idea for how to do group chat under my model, e-mail the list i just signed onto</p>
<p>[22:26] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hehe </p>
<p>[22:26] &lt;jrand0m&gt; cool </p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;jrand0m&gt; yeah, starting off with one on one (perhaps with send/receive file) would probably be prudent </p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;thecrypto&gt; yeah, the only problem would be syncronizing the baton will be difficult</p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;thecrypto&gt; because you don't want 2 people grabbing the baton at the same time, or have the person who has the baton to drop of then et</p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;thecrypto&gt; nety</p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;TC&gt; token-ring-chat?</p>
<p>[22:27] &lt;jrand0m&gt; yup, voting systems are a pain.   </p>
<p>[22:28] &lt;jrand0m&gt; right, good ol' 2phaseCommit </p>
<p>[22:28] &lt;thecrypto&gt; TC: no, basically the IM network has no central presence server</p>
<p>[22:28] &lt;thecrypto&gt; so what i'm thinking about doing is have a virtual server baton</p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;duck&gt; ok, using a bootdisk from now on...</p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;jrand0m&gt; the other option is to do group chat fully distributed: "group" just being "send these messages to peer X, Y, Z" </p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;jrand0m&gt; d'oh duck </p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;thecrypto&gt; yeah, but that's network by broadcast</p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;jrand0m&gt; not really </p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;thecrypto&gt; which is usually the stupidest idea</p>
<p>[22:29] &lt;jrand0m&gt; the messages have to get sent to peer X, Y, Z from someone sometime </p>
<p>[22:30] &lt;jrand0m&gt; its actually 1 less message than the (temporary) server based model </p>
<p>[22:30] &lt;thecrypto&gt; yes, but then each person has to keep track of the group</p>
<p>[22:30] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (and the UI can make the group 'pretty') </p>
<p>[22:30] &lt;thecrypto&gt; and now there has to be messages passed around about what the group is current</p>
<p>[22:30] &lt;jrand0m&gt; right, perhaps a control message stating "I think group A is X, Y, Z" </p>
<p>[22:31] &lt;jrand0m&gt; instead of the voting protocol </p>
<p>[22:31] &lt;jrand0m&gt; right, I'm not sure what way is best </p>
<p>[22:31] &lt;jrand0m&gt; just saying there's an option </p>
<p>[22:31] &lt;jrand0m&gt; no lo se  </p>
<p>[22:31] &lt;thecrypto&gt; yeah</p>
<p>[22:32] &lt;jrand0m&gt; anyway, if you want a 'product' on bugzilla for i2pim, lemmie know, as well as if theres anything i can do to help </p>
<p>[22:32] &lt;thecrypto&gt;  well, i need code for there to be bugs in first</p>
<p>[22:32] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ;) </p>
<p>[22:33] &lt;thecrypto&gt; so wait a bit and i'll have something to put on bugzilla</p>
<p>[22:34] &lt;jrand0m&gt; cool, whenever, its trivial to add </p>
<p>[22:35] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, i2ptunnel </p>
<p>[22:35] &lt;jrand0m&gt; i've tossed in two bug-ish things into bugzilla: (Link: http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1)http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1 and (Link: http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2)http://i2p.dnsalias.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2 </p>
<p>[22:36] &lt;jrand0m&gt; plus there's a thing wrt some browsers b0rking on missing trailing / </p>
<p>[22:37] &lt;jrand0m&gt; getting sequence numbers into i2ptunnel would be really good, as large transfers sometimes are getting corrupted (missing message thats dropped, but sequence numbers would notice that immediately and fail fast) </p>
<p>[22:37] &lt;jrand0m&gt; other than that, the things are minor, i2ptunnel is behaving a lot better than the router :) </p>
<p>[22:38] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, any other apps? </p>
<p>[22:39] &lt;jrand0m&gt; there was some discussion about NAT/SOCKS the last few days on the channel </p>
<p>[22:39] &lt;jrand0m&gt; a socks enabled proxy that would let people ftp, bittorrent, etc would be really great </p>
<p>[22:39] &lt;jrand0m&gt; plus there's the discussion aum started on the i2p list wrt file sharing / cdn </p>
<p>[22:40] &lt;jrand0m&gt; (i swear i didn't tell him to make that post ;) </p>
<p>[22:41] &lt;jrand0m&gt; i probably won't be doing anything on the app side beyond help out integrating with i2p, as there's a truckload of stuff to do in the router, so if you're interested in seeing them show up, get hackin' </p>
<p>[22:44] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, thats it for apps </p>
<p>[22:44] &lt;jrand0m&gt; 5) ??? </p>
<p>[22:44] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hi </p>
<p>[22:44] &lt;jrand0m&gt; any comments / questions / concerns / etc? </p>
<p>[22:45] &lt;ardvark&gt; I think everyone fell asleep ;)</p>
<p>[22:46] &lt;jrand0m&gt; someone posted a question to the wiki's FAQ and it got answered after about a day, so if anyone has concerns, either post them there, to the i2p@i2p.dnsalias.net mailing list, ask it in this channel, or spraypaint it on the wall </p>
<p>[22:46] &lt;duck&gt; oh, meeting</p>
<p>[22:46] &lt;jrand0m&gt; yeah, exciting, aint it ;) </p>
<p>[22:46] * jrand0m slings mud at duck</p>
<p>[22:46] * mihi did not follow, sorry. he will stand in the corner for the next 5 minutes...</p>
<p>[22:46] &lt;jrand0m&gt; hehe </p>
<p>[22:47] &lt;jrand0m&gt; ok, thats about it. </p>
<p>[22:48] * jrand0m *baf*s the meeting to a close</p>
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