705 lines
36 KiB
HTML
705 lines
36 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 1{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}
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<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 1</h3>
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<div class="irclog">
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Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
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<p>
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<p>--- Log opened Wed May 22 02:01:22 2002
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<p>02:01 <+logger> Logging started
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<p>02:01 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:01 <@nop> welcome to this humble first meeting
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<p>02:01 <@nop> first and foremost
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<p>02:02 <@nop> Thank you's to all of you for your efforts
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<p>02:02 <@nop> especially as we all know that there is Real life to deal with
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<p>02:02 <@nop> and that we've done pretty well so far
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<p>02:02 <@nop> meeting: The reason for this meeting(s) will be plural hopefully
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<p>02:03 <@nop> we need to gain some order for development and schedules and tasks that are being done for IIP
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<p>02:03 <@nop> whether it's contributed tasks, ala #factory, or backend, ala inform, or core ala IIP software
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<p>02:03 <@nop> or ircd
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<p>02:03 <@nop> :)
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<p>02:03 <@mids> .
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<p>02:04 <@mids> (to indicate I am here)
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<p>02:04 <@nop> I think we all share a common goal in supporting this project, and it has it's rewards just knowing the technology is becoming possible to help a lot of people with free speech, privacy, anonymity and security
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<p>02:04 <@nop> this is a great project in the matter, because it challenges all of these topics, and is sparking intereests especially in these times
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<p>02:05 <@mids> agenda:
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Welcome (nop)
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Status of developers / projects (nop)
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Website (nym)
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Release Roadmap
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Documentation (cohesion, codeshark, mids)
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<p>02:05 <@mids> - Question Round
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<p>02:05 <@nop> so welcome all, and again thank you.
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<p>02:05 <@Chocolate> (still connected)
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<p>02:05 <@nop> next on the agenda: Status of developers
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<p>02:05 <@nop> hehe
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<p>02:06 <@nop> before we get there
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<p>02:06 <@nop> a side not, this meeting is invite only
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<p>02:06 <@nop> but will be logged and published to the public for viewing and/or comments
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<p>02:06 <@nop> as well as the results
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<p>02:06 <@mids> live logging is on http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip-dev.txt
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<p>02:06 <@mids> (in case you drop out)
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<p>02:07 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:07 <@nop> Status of developers
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<p>02:07 <@mids> who first? :)
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<p>02:08 <@nop> UserX and I have been focusing on IIP 1.1 to be released, but we're to the point of no return where we would like to release iip rc2 for running tests by the team and public, but would like more thorough docs, so that's the hold up there
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<p>02:08 <@nop> let's talk about docs
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<p>02:08 <@nop> status : mids, cs, ?
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<p>02:08 <@codeshark> you :)
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<p>02:08 <@mids> .
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<p>02:08 <@mids> me
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<p>02:09 <@mids> I joined IIP when I heared about it on Freenet
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<p>02:09 <@mids> after some chatting etc, I made Trent
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<p>02:09 <@mids> our big friend :)
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<p>02:09 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:09 <@mids> also done some ircd patches
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<p>02:09 <@mids> helped by Chocolate, thanks!
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<p>02:10 <@mids> I promised 0x90 to look into doing client 2 client encryption
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<p>02:10 <@mids> I did a lot of talking and research
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<p>02:10 <@mids> but nothing is done :(
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<p>02:10 <@nop> tis ok
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<p>02:10 <@mids> currently I kind of dropped it, because I lacked time and willing
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<p>02:10 <@mids> something slightly related:
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<p>02:11 <@mids> I coded bankbot
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<p>02:11 <@mids> another helpfull application for IIP :)
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<p>02:11 < nym> hey
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<p>02:11 <@nop> welcome
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<p>02:11 < nym> only non op ;)
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<p>02:11 <@nop> mids
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<p>02:11 <@nop> continue
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<p>02:11 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o nym] by Chocolate
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<p>02:11 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o nym] by mids
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<p>02:11 <@nym> sorry, i was under the impression the meeting was tomorrow
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<p>02:12 <@mids> last act of me was that I ported the docs to LaTeX, more about that later
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<p>02:12 <@mids> .
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<p>02:12 <@nop> k
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<p>02:12 <@nop> cs
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<p>02:12 <@codeshark> ok, like mids i heared about iip on freenet
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<p>02:12 <@codeshark> and chatted with nop about it :)
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<p>02:13 <@codeshark> then i made our inform relaychecker script, that keeps a list of the running nodes
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<p>02:13 <@codeshark> now i'm doing some anonymail stuff...
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<p>02:14 <@nop> on a note
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<p>02:14 <@nop> cs is responsible for the "dynamic routing system" that being the inform server
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<p>02:14 <@nym> freenet is too slow, so i came here
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<p>02:15 <@codeshark> anything else?
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<p>02:15 <@codeshark> hmm, the docs
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<p>02:16 <@codeshark> i created a windows version of our docs (.chm format)
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<p>02:16 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:16 <@nop> which will need updating once cohesion finishes the docs
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<p>02:17 <@codeshark> i also made a test for the docbook format
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<p>02:17 <@codeshark> but we'll come back to this later
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<p>02:17 <@mids> you bet I will
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<p>02:17 <@codeshark> that's it for now
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<p>02:18 <@codeshark> chocolate?
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<p>02:19 <@Chocolate> I first heard of IIP on freenet from CofE
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<p>02:19 <@Chocolate> after seeing a couple of anouncements about it on his freesite
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<p>02:19 <@Chocolate> I decided to try it out
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<p>02:19 <@Chocolate> since then I have helped with misc things
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<p>02:20 <@Chocolate> running a relay (precrypto, the DH didnt work on my 486)
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<p>02:20 <@Chocolate> helping to debug the memory leak (by killing the ircd for about 5 hours...)
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<p>02:21 <@Chocolate> my first main codeing cotribution to IIP was helping mids with Trent
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<p>02:21 <@nop> kewl
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<p>02:21 <@nop> don't forget hydrabot
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<p>02:21 <@nop> or eyek0n
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<p>02:21 <@Chocolate> oh yea right
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<p>02:22 <@Chocolate> hydrabot came out of a disire to be able to see waht was happening on #freenet on OPN
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<p>02:22 <@Chocolate> unfortunetly the bot died the sad death of flexibilitise
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<p>02:23 <@nop> and along came eyek0n
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<p>02:23 <@nop> :)
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<p>02:23 <@Chocolate> yes, eyek0n is a modified changate that was hacked up to serve the purpos that HydraBot was intended to fill
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<p>02:25 <@Chocolate> I also maintain a misc group of xchat and other scripts for IIP, some donated, others my own
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<p>02:25 <@Chocolate> my current area of work is on ThreadChat, a realtime BBS/forums type sytem over IRC
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<p>02:25 <@Chocolate> .
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<p>02:25 <@nop> kewlness
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<p>02:26 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:26 <@nop> is that all?
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<p>02:26 <@mids> ardvark just joined, he isnt a developer, but a zeroday user... he isnt allowed to introduce himself because otherwise this will take too long
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<p>02:26 <@mids> maybe a quicky for nym?
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<p>02:26 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:27 <@nop> nym : developer intro
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<p>02:28 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:28 <@nop> I'll say it
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<p>02:28 <@nop> he seems to be off somewhere
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<p>02:28 <@mids> go for it
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<p>02:28 <@nop> he comes to us as the web developer of freenetprojects' site
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<p>02:29 <@nop> and we're open he can give us a make over to give us a more global appeal of anonymous irc/internet projects
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<p>02:29 <@nop> open == hoping
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<p>02:29 <@nop> he will be focusing on a lighter design with press releases etc
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<p>02:29 <@nop> gives us less of a hobby and more of a serious developer team look to us
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<p>02:30 <@nop> even though you can't see us
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<p>02:30 <@nop> :)
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<p>02:30 <@nop> hehe
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<p>02:30 <@mids> :)
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<p>02:30 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:30 <@nop> agenda list
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<p>02:30 <@nop> please
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<p>02:30 <@mids> - Website (nym)
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<p>02:30 <@mids> - Release Roadmap
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<p>02:30 <@mids> - Documentation (cohesion, codeshark, mids)
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<p>02:30 <@mids> - Question Round
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<p>02:31 <@Chocolate> can't do website now if nym isnt here
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<p>02:31 <@nop> ok well let's talk about website when nym seems awake
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<p>02:31 <@nop> so Release Roadmap
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<p>02:31 <@mids> .
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<p>02:31 <@nop> our first focus on this is rc2
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<p>02:31 <@nop> This is for testing the changes and added features and to break in any network changes that may occur before 1.1
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<p>02:32 <@nym> hi
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<p>02:32 <@nym> i'm here
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<p>02:32 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:32 <@nop> website
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<p>02:32 <@nop> please
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<p>02:32 <@nop> then we'll go back
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<p>02:33 <@nop> to roadmap
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<p>02:33 <@nym> well the website is coming along, although i thought i had another day to get something to you guys
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<p>02:33 <@nop> do you have any screen shots at all
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<p>02:33 <@nym> not on hand
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<p>02:33 <@nop> hmm mids
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<p>02:34 <@mids> http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/draft2.jpg
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<p>02:34 <@nop> do you have draft2?
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<p>02:34 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:34 <@nop> that will give people an idea
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<p>02:34 <@nop> this is older
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<p>02:34 <@nop> but it's what we have
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<p>02:34 <@nym> okay, well what i need to know is what release this is going to correspond with
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<p>02:34 <@nop> the current release
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<p>02:34 <@nop> and we can modify easily
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<p>02:34 <@mids> nop: current as in rc2 ?
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<p>02:35 <@nop> current as as soon as we can get something
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<p>02:35 <@nym> i thought you had a big release on the horizon
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<p>02:35 <@nop> so focus on iip 1.1 rc1
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<p>02:35 <@mids> :)
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<p>02:35 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:35 <@nop> but
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<p>02:35 <@nop> we need something going
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<p>02:35 <@nop> other than what we have
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<p>02:35 <@nop> something that has a easily modifiable template
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<p>02:35 <@mids> we want to have the site betatested too, same with the rcs
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<p>02:35 <@nop> so that it can be prepped for released
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<p>02:35 <@mids> so we can go 'big' on 1.1
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<p>02:35 <@nop> releases
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<p>02:35 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:35 <@nop> site betatested
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<p>02:35 <@nym> yeah, but what releases do you have coming, and when?
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<p>02:36 <@nop> rc 2
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<p>02:36 <@nop> is coming
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<p>02:36 <@nop> cohesion is working on docs
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<p>02:36 <@nop> cs it's easy for you to do .chm correct?
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<p>02:36 <@nym> no idea what those are
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<p>02:36 <@codeshark> nop: we'll have to talk about docs later :)
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<p>02:36 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:36 <@Chocolate> are we on the relese roadmap now or are we still on the website?
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<p>02:36 <@nop> website
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<p>02:36 <@nop> we went back
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<p>02:36 <@nop> because nym is awake ;)
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<p>02:36 <@nym> aye
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<p>02:37 <@nop> let's focus on getting somethign up
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<p>02:37 <@nop> then we can be focused on release
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<p>02:37 <@nym> hrm okay
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<p>02:37 <@nym> well i'll get something going
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<p>02:37 <@nop> we would like to have it modifiable
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<p>02:37 <@nop> this is key
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<p>02:37 <@nop> so it's template based
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<p>02:38 <@mids> nym: can you name the changes between the draft and current?
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<p>02:38 <@nym> umm
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<p>02:38 <@nop> umm, current I have no clue on
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<p>02:38 <@nop> he might
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<p>02:38 <@nop> I saw n : and answered
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<p>02:38 <@nop> my bad
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<p>02:38 * nop will shut up now
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<p>02:39 <@nym> okay..
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<p>02:39 <@nym> well lots
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<p>02:39 <@nym> font changes
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<p>02:39 <@nym> drop shadows
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<p>02:39 <@nym> the logo looks different (invisiblenet.net/iip/)
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<p>02:40 <@nym> better crunchbox logo
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<p>02:40 <@mids> great
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<p>02:40 <@nym> we don't have a mac version, so i dropped that
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<p>02:41 <@nym> plus i dropped anything to do with invisible im because that's not happening
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<p>02:41 <@nop> not as that title
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<p>02:41 <@nop> no
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<p>02:41 <@nym> that's confusing
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<p>02:41 <@nop> IIP is simple and makes sense
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<p>02:41 <@mids> question: what about FreeBSD & OpenBSD ? its the same release as linux
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<p>02:41 <@nop> let's focus on the now for that
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<p>02:42 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:42 <@nop> mids it is
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<p>02:42 <@mids> freebsd users will be offended if they would have to click on a Tux
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<p>02:42 <@nop> hmm
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<p>02:42 <@nop> good point
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<p>02:42 <@nym> i worry about the neiche market still tho
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<p>02:42 <@nop> can we have maybe a tux and a devil fucking ;)
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<p>02:42 <@nop> hehe
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<p>02:43 <@nym> well we'll offer source
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<p>02:43 <@nym> freebsd doesn't need a logo
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<p>02:43 * nop says bad jokes too oftne
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<p>02:43 <@nop> often
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<p>02:43 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:43 <@nop> so when can we get a new draft
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<p>02:43 <@nop> give us a solid date
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<p>02:43 <@nop> GMT
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<p>02:43 <@mids> :)
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<p>02:44 <@nym> well i can promise progress by next meeting
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<p>02:44 <@nym> but i'm in the middle of a big contract atm
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<p>02:44 <@nop> how much progress, like something we can put up?
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<p>02:44 <@nym> well no
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<p>02:44 <@nop> hmm
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<p>02:44 <@codeshark> nop: it's better to wait until it's complete anyway
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<p>02:45 <@nym> ditto
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<p>02:45 <@mids> codeshark: current looks is terrible
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<p>02:45 <@nop> understood codeshark : just thinking maybe we can revamp the current look though
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<p>02:45 <@mids> I suggest reverting to the old look
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<p>02:45 <@nop> it needs a lighter feel
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<p>02:45 <@mids> till the site is done
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<p>02:46 <@nop> we could do that unless nym can maybe dish out a slightly lighter look for it possibly
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<p>02:46 <@nop> with a donation button and just like an intro page
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<p>02:46 <@nym> for what?
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<p>02:46 <@nop> for the site, instead of the under construction we have now
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<p>02:46 <@nop> maybe like something gives more an intro and download software right off the bat
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<p>02:47 <@Chocolate> well the old site is linked
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<p>02:47 <@nop> then take them to the site behind it
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<p>02:47 <@codeshark> nop: just make the old page easier to find
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<p>02:47 <@codeshark> put the link up a bit
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<p>02:47 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:47 <@nym> well edit that as needed
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<p>02:47 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:47 <@nop> we'll figure something out
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<p>02:47 <@mids> k
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<p>02:47 <@nym> i'm going to keep working on the big release
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<p>02:47 <@nop> can you give us a draft by friday?
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<p>02:48 <@nym> most likely
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<p>02:48 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:48 <@codeshark> but keep the intro page until the new site is complete
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<p>02:48 <@mids> screenshot is enough
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<p>02:48 <@nop> thnk you
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<p>02:48 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:48 <@nop> screenshot/draft
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<p>02:48 <@nop> same thing to me
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<p>02:48 <@nym> i've got everything on my laptop now..
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<p>02:48 <@nym> it shouldn't be a problem
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<p>02:48 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:49 <@nop> next part
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<p>02:49 <@nop> back to roadmap release
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<p>02:49 <@mids> what are the current limits for doing RC2 ?
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<p>02:49 <@codeshark> what's missing except the docs?
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<p>02:49 <@nop> RC2 as stated earlier is designed to get all the bugs out and adjust to changes for 1.1 final release
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<p>02:49 <@nop> that's it
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<p>02:49 <@nop> docs are needed
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<p>02:49 <@nop> and new .chm
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<p>02:49 <@nop> and cs
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<p>02:49 <@nop> make sure we don't include .ini or listen.ref this time
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<p>02:49 <@nop> :)
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<p>02:49 <@codeshark> sure :)
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<p>02:50 <@codeshark> has been removed
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<p>02:50 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:50 <@nop> also
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<p>02:50 <@nop> cs
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<p>02:50 <@nop> in the future
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<p>02:50 <@nop> as people move over
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<p>02:50 <@nop> to rc2
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<p>02:50 <@nop> we can wait a week
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<p>02:50 <@nop> but then after that I need you to add closedelay: infront of the networkprotocol = closedelay:etc
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<p>02:50 <@nop> this is a key feature
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<p>02:50 <@nop> that has been wanted
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<p>02:51 <@codeshark> ok
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<p>02:51 <@nop> this tells the network to hold on to the user even if he dies out from 15-45 seconds
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<p>02:51 <@mids> (closedelays makes your connection staying up for a little while if your client or node disconnects)
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<p>02:51 <@mids> (making it harder to track you to your IP)
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<p>02:51 <@nop> yes
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<p>02:51 <@codeshark> will it break rc-1 clients completely?
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<p>02:51 <@Chocolate> can you reconnect to the held connection?
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<p>02:51 <@nop> if we wait a week
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<p>02:52 <@nop> most people should have upgraded
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<p>02:52 <@codeshark> i'd wait a bit longer than a week
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<p>02:52 <@nop> ok
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<p>02:52 <@nop> maybe 2
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<p>02:52 <@nop> because the network side will have it
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<p>02:52 <@nop> it will still help you
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<p>02:52 <@nop> but by the time rc2 is everyone
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<p>02:52 <@nop> the entire network will help support your delayed presence
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<p>02:53 <@nop> please send a ! now if you guys are willing to pre-test before we officially release rc2
|
|
<p>02:53 <@nop> making sure things go smoothly
|
|
<p>02:53 <@mids> !
|
|
<p>02:53 <@codeshark> !I have to do that anyway ;)
|
|
<p>02:53 <@nop> hehe
|
|
<p>02:53 <@nop> anyone else?
|
|
<p>02:54 <@codeshark> tell me if you're ready for rc-2 and i'll prepare the windows installer and *nix tgz
|
|
<p>02:54 <@nop> irc is tough for this anyway
|
|
<p>02:54 <@codeshark> you have my pager e-mail?
|
|
<p>02:54 <@nop> ok, should be ready for friday, but I really want docs updated
|
|
<p>02:54 <@nop> no I don't
|
|
<p>02:54 <@Chocolate> !
|
|
<p>02:54 <@nop> please send it privately
|
|
<p>02:54 <@codeshark> sure
|
|
<p>02:55 <@nop> this is a publicly logged channel
|
|
<p>02:55 <@nop> you all have mine I assume
|
|
<p>02:55 <@Chocolate> the one that's only outgoing?
|
|
<p>02:56 <@nop> hehe
|
|
<p>02:56 <@nop> ok, to answer cs's question
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> closedelay - we need to hold off at least 2 weeks
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> and promote it well enough
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> so that people do upgrade
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> the challenge is
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> making sure relay users can just simply upgrade
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> without redoing the relay system
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> that should be trivial
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> but it's a necessity to make sure it's done right
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> choc
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> your question of reconnecting to help connection
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> can you elaborate
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> held
|
|
<p>02:57 <@nop> not help
|
|
<p>02:58 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o UserX] by mids
|
|
<p>02:58 <@nop> welcome userx
|
|
<p>02:58 <@UserX> hi
|
|
<p>02:58 <@nop> can you redisplay agenda list for userx
|
|
<p>02:58 <@nop> please
|
|
<p>02:58 <@mids> - Welcome (nop)
|
|
<p>02:58 <@mids> - Status of developers / projects (nop)
|
|
<p>02:58 <@mids> - Website (nym)
|
|
<p>02:58 <@mids> - Release Roadmap
|
|
<p>02:58 <@mids> - Documentation (cohesion, codeshark, mids)
|
|
<p>02:59 <@mids> - Question Round
|
|
<p>02:59 <@nop> we're on release roadmap
|
|
<p>02:59 <@Chocolate> the closedelay holds the connection open after the user drops from IP change, or (ip) network failure
|
|
<p>02:59 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>02:59 <@Chocolate> can you reconnect to this help connection?
|
|
<p>02:59 <@nop> no
|
|
<p>02:59 <@nop> it's just for traffic analysis preventative assistance
|
|
<p>02:59 <@Chocolate> ok, great
|
|
<p>02:59 <@nop> but there is a major other feature that works
|
|
<p>02:59 <@Chocolate> I assume it's help for a random time?
|
|
<p>02:59 <@mids> s/help/held/
|
|
<p>03:00 <@codeshark> nop: did you include the feature that tries another relay if the first doesn't work?
|
|
<p>03:00 <@Chocolate> s/help/held/
|
|
<p>03:00 <@nop> it will retry (default 5 tries) (random time yes) when connecting to network nodes so you won't get disconnected each time a relay doesn't work
|
|
<p>03:00 <@codeshark> ok, cool
|
|
<p>03:00 <@nop> codeshark see above, yes
|
|
<p>03:00 <@mids> wow, cool
|
|
<p>03:00 <@nop> this does not help you if a relay fails and you're already conencted to it
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> that is what closedelay does though
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> is makes you stall a bit visually
|
|
<p>03:01 <@codeshark> btw: we should stop adding features now
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> it's already stopped
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:01 <@codeshark> :)
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> cvs rc2 is tagged I believe is it not userx?
|
|
<p>03:01 <@UserX> it's not tagged yet
|
|
<p>03:01 <@codeshark> nop: not only to rc-2 but also to 1.1
|
|
<p>03:01 <@nop> correct
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> rc2 is just testing of the already set features
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> and changes
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> also cs
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> make sure we have a decent changelog
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> I sent you that list
|
|
<p>03:02 <@codeshark> hmm
|
|
<p>03:02 <@codeshark> email?
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> the changes and features
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> I cc'd to you and cohesion
|
|
<p>03:02 <@Chocolate> could there be someway to verify that a relay has been added to the check list?
|
|
<p>03:02 <@nop> UserX - we're covering roadmap release, is there anything you would like to add
|
|
<p>03:02 <@codeshark> k, got it
|
|
<p>03:03 <@Chocolate> like I have no idea if my relay isnt on the public list becouse it didnt inform right, or becouse it's to unreliable
|
|
<p>03:03 <@nop> choc it's most likely not
|
|
<p>03:03 <@nop> but that's ok
|
|
<p>03:03 <@nop> we forgive you
|
|
<p>03:03 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:04 <@codeshark> hmm, i think i should add a page where you can get infos about you relays
|
|
<p>03:04 <@mids> Chocolate's question is often asked
|
|
<p>03:04 <@codeshark> "you relays" = "your relay"
|
|
<p>03:04 <@nop> and you don't think that would compromise anything
|
|
<p>03:05 <@Chocolate> make the request come from the IP that the relay in question would have?
|
|
<p>03:05 <@codeshark> i won't show too much info
|
|
<p>03:05 <@codeshark> and i need to keep the deleted relays too
|
|
<p>03:05 <@codeshark> just mark them as deleted
|
|
<p>03:05 <@nop> spoofing
|
|
<p>03:05 <@nop> UserX - looks like that's a no
|
|
<p>03:05 <@nop> hehe
|
|
<p>03:06 <@codeshark> nop: tcp/ip conections can't easily be spoofed
|
|
<p>03:06 <@nop> easily, but they can be
|
|
<p>03:06 <@codeshark> except you are somewhere between the relay and me
|
|
<p>03:06 <@mids> it is a php thing isnt it? (not an isproxy one)
|
|
<p>03:06 <@codeshark> yes
|
|
<p>03:06 <@nop> agenda list please
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Welcome (nop)
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Status of developers / projects (nop)
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Website (nym)
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Release Roadmap
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Documentation (cohesion, codeshark, mids)
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> - Question Round
|
|
<p>03:07 <@codeshark> i'll just show a small status message ("your node is on the public list", "your node has been deleted because it was down to often..."
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> cs that's fine
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> any more questions on roadmap release
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> .
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> ok next part
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> documentation
|
|
<p>03:07 <@mids> ill do intro
|
|
<p>03:07 <@nop> k
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> cohesion is document manager
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> but he isnt here
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> codeshark and me are both working on it
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> codeshark did .chm (windows help) and Docbook
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> and will tell about that
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> I did a LaTeX version, and will explain that
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> why 2 systems?
|
|
<p>03:08 <@mids> docbook was taking long, and I was getting impatient
|
|
<p>03:09 <@mids> I knew that a release should be soon, so docs are wanted
|
|
<p>03:09 <@mids> I have no hate regarding codeshark or anything :)
|
|
<p>03:09 <@codeshark> :)
|
|
<p>03:09 <@mids> codeshark, can you tell us about docbook? pro and con and status?
|
|
<p>03:09 <@nop> also note
|
|
<p>03:09 <@codeshark> ok
|
|
<p>03:09 <@nop> cs was in the process of moving
|
|
<p>03:10 <@codeshark> pro's: docbook uses xml; it can generate different output formats: pdf, html, and "CHM"
|
|
<p>03:10 <@codeshark> cons: it's not that easy to learn. I think i'm the only one who wrote some help pages in it yet :(
|
|
<p>03:10 <@mids> hey, I ported trent!
|
|
<p>03:11 <@codeshark> completely?
|
|
<p>03:11 <@codeshark> cool
|
|
<p>03:12 <@codeshark> another thing about the docbook stuff we use: it's taken from the phphelp
|
|
<p>03:12 <@codeshark> so we have all the tools/templates for the different output formats
|
|
<p>03:12 <@mids> http://cvs.php.net/cvs.php/phpdoc
|
|
<p>03:12 <@mids> they made the CHM link with M$ chm cooking facility
|
|
<p>03:13 <@codeshark> it has been tested. it works. i converted some chapters of the doc to docbook
|
|
<p>03:13 <@codeshark> about CHM: why CHM?
|
|
<p>03:14 <@mids> proprietary fileformats are cool? :)
|
|
<p>03:14 <@codeshark> nope :)
|
|
<p>03:14 <@codeshark> it's the default help format on windows. it supports keyword search, fulltext search and has a nice grouping of the help chapters
|
|
<p>03:15 <@codeshark> it allows you to add bitmap to the helps (see iip.chm)
|
|
<p>03:15 <@nop> also very handy for IIP help systray option
|
|
<p>03:15 <@codeshark> btw: mids, there's also a *nix chm viewer
|
|
<p>03:15 <@mids> sure
|
|
<p>03:16 <@mids> done?
|
|
<p>03:16 <@codeshark> yes
|
|
<p>03:16 <@mids> okay, LaTeX is a much older system then docbook
|
|
<p>03:17 <@mids> pro: its well known in the academic word, it doesnt use XML, it support different outputs: ps, dvi, pdf, html, txt. and I know it
|
|
<p>03:17 <@mids> con: it doesnt use XML, it is not very easy to learn, no native .CHM support
|
|
<p>03:17 <@nop> interrupt
|
|
<p>03:17 <@nop> real quick
|
|
<p>03:17 <@mids> I converted the whole v1.1.2-pre9 doc
|
|
<p>03:17 <@mids> ok
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> for pdf I notice the casper logo
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> can we change that to nyms logo
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> for reasons of copyright
|
|
<p>03:18 <@mids> sure
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> and at the bottom
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> I will send you guys a powered by InvisibleNet
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> which is us
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> logo
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> to put at bottom of page
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:18 <@codeshark> nop: the existing pdf is just a test anyway
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> I understand
|
|
<p>03:18 <@nop> I'm just requesting
|
|
<p>03:18 <@codeshark> it doesn't use either docbook nor latex
|
|
<p>03:19 <@nop> k
|
|
<p>03:19 <@nop> well, anyway
|
|
<p>03:19 <@nop> that's a yes I assume
|
|
<p>03:19 <@codeshark> yes
|
|
<p>03:19 <@nop> kewl
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> I converted the whole v1.1.2-pre9 doc; its on http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/docdemo/
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> take a look
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> it has the *.tex sourcefiles
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> the Makefile
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> and all the outputs... pdf, ps, dvi, txt, html and bightml
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> mids
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> you also have a sourceforge account
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> about chm: why does chm suck?
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> you have rights to make directories on the website
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> so that they can be there as well
|
|
<p>03:20 <@mids> nop: I know
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:20 <@nop> kewl
|
|
<p>03:21 <@mids> chm sucks because it is a proprietary microsoft format
|
|
<p>03:21 <@mids> there are no good opensource tools for it
|
|
<p>03:21 <@codeshark> nop: these are just experiments right now. that's why they're not on the sf server
|
|
<p>03:21 <@mids> the chm viewer for *nix is just a hard to use extractor
|
|
<p>03:21 <@mids> nobody uses windows help files anyway
|
|
<p>03:21 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:21 <@mids> :)
|
|
<p>03:21 <@codeshark> hehe )
|
|
<p>03:21 <@codeshark> :)
|
|
<p>03:21 <@nop> mids
|
|
<p>03:21 <@nop> it's helpful for win32 users
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> and I say we can use it for help systray option
|
|
<p>03:22 <@mids> you can also put the pdf file in the IIP dir or the html ones
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:22 <@mids> and start the browser in the systray option
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> umm
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> trust me .chm looks nice in windows
|
|
<p>03:22 <@codeshark> sure, but do you have a chapter list in html?
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> so stick with that for win32
|
|
<p>03:22 <@mids> I am not against CHM for IIP, I am just not going to do it
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> cs will
|
|
<p>03:22 <@nop> no worries
|
|
<p>03:22 <@codeshark> aehm
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> there's a small problem
|
|
<p>03:23 <@mids> have fun codeshark :P
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> uhh
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> i don't want to have 2 version of the docs like we have now
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> sup?
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> umm
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> maybe we can make chm a separate doc
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> that's how it is now
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> chm and pdf are seperate
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> that's all I'm saying
|
|
<p>03:23 <@nop> welcome back userx
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> but that's not how it should be
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> right mis?
|
|
<p>03:23 <@codeshark> mids?
|
|
<p>03:23 <@mids> right
|
|
<p>03:24 <@codeshark> what are the possibilities?
|
|
<p>03:24 <@nop> chm is a nice plus
|
|
<p>03:24 <@codeshark> 1) use docbook,...
|
|
<p>03:24 <@nop> one
|
|
<p>03:24 <@nop> not everyone has pdf viewers
|
|
<p>03:24 <@nop> chm for win32 is built in
|
|
<p>03:24 <@codeshark> 2) use latex and try to create the chm's from the htmls
|
|
<p>03:24 <@codeshark> 3) manually synchronize chm and html
|
|
<p>03:24 <@codeshark> 4) drop chm support
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> x on 4
|
|
<p>03:25 <@mids> 5) make a light chm with only the menu functions explained
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> hopefully x 3
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> that's what I was thinkign
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> 5
|
|
<p>03:25 <@mids> (manually)
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> like a man page
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:25 <@Chocolate> eavryon on win will have a web browser
|
|
<p>03:25 <@mids> and link it for more info to the full doc as html, pdf , dvi, ps whatever
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> sounds good
|
|
<p>03:25 <@Chocolate> you should be able to generate an index page from the LaTeX/docbook
|
|
<p>03:25 <@codeshark> ok, i'll look at it
|
|
<p>03:25 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> is that it for docs?
|
|
<p>03:26 <@mids> no
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> sorry
|
|
<p>03:26 <@mids> still pieces of doc should be written on the unix part
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> continue
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> also man page
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> is that completed
|
|
<p>03:26 <@mids> its still missing in the current one, cohesions work didnt have it
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> and symbolicly link iip with isproxy
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> like man iip
|
|
<p>03:26 <@mids> man page is in CVS for weeks
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> will give man isproxy
|
|
<p>03:26 <@mids> nobody commented on it, so I assume it is perfect
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:26 <@nop> nice
|
|
<p>03:27 <@nop> UserX
|
|
<p>03:27 <@nop> will IIP as is auto-install man pages
|
|
<p>03:27 <@codeshark> nop: does it have "make install" yet?
|
|
<p>03:27 <@nop> he might be having connectivity issues
|
|
<p>03:27 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:27 <@mids> hairy topic
|
|
<p>03:28 <@nop> the concern is upgrading relay node users
|
|
<p>03:28 <@mids> location of manpages is really system dependant
|
|
<p>03:28 <@nop> right
|
|
<p>03:28 < UserX> make install should install the man page
|
|
<p>03:28 <@codeshark> yeah, they have to manually upgrade from rc1 to rc2
|
|
<p>03:28 <@mids> configure in 1.2 will fix that
|
|
<p>03:28 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:29 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o UserX] by mids
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> userx hasn't identified - policy
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> no ops to unidentified users
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> spoken late
|
|
<p>03:29 <@mids> The nickname userx is registered and identified
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> :)
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> I am really lagging
|
|
<p>03:29 <@mids> np
|
|
<p>03:29 <@nop> I still have it saying that it's not
|
|
<p>03:30 <@nop> ok
|
|
<p>03:30 <@nop> continue
|
|
<p>03:30 <@mids> I am finished with my part of docs
|
|
<p>03:30 <@nop> cs
|
|
<p>03:30 <@nop> what did you mean they have to manually upgrade
|
|
<p>03:30 <@codeshark> hmm
|
|
<p>03:30 <@codeshark> docbook vs latex? ;)
|
|
<p>03:30 <@mids> latex short term, docbook long term?
|
|
<p>03:31 <@codeshark> output of both formats is ok (except missing chm support of latex)
|
|
<p>03:31 <@nop> I just want to make sure installer sees already known node.ref and listen.ref in there
|
|
<p>03:31 <@nop> as well as isproxy.ini
|
|
<p>03:31 <@nop> cohesion needs to get on the unix stuff
|
|
<p>03:31 <@codeshark> nop: windows?
|
|
<p>03:31 <@mids> mind you that we also have 2 translatins
|
|
<p>03:31 <@nop> yes
|
|
<p>03:31 <@nop> obviously as long as we don't include our own isproxy.ini, node.ref or listen.ref for unix
|
|
<p>03:32 <@nop> we should be fine
|
|
<p>03:32 <@nop> we might want to have a blurb in doc about upgrading
|
|
<p>03:32 <@nop> to install in same directory
|
|
<p>03:32 <@nop> for upgraded node
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<p>03:32 <@nop> or import your .ref and .ini files
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<p>03:32 <@nop> etc
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<p>03:32 <@nop> to be discussed later
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<p>03:32 <@mids> .
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<p>03:32 <@nop> agenda list please
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Welcome (nop)
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Status of developers / projects (nop)
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Website (nym)
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Release Roadmap
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Documentation (cohesion, codeshark, mids)
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<p>03:33 <@mids> - Question Round
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<p>03:33 <@nop> ok
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<p>03:33 <@nop> question round
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<p>03:33 <@nop> any questions
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<p>03:33 <@codeshark> nop: i think i'm already handling the upgrading stuff. but i have to check
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<p>03:33 <@nop> ok
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<p>03:33 <@mids> why is not everybody here?
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<p>03:33 <@nop> thnx cs
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<p>03:33 <@codeshark> we looked at it on rc1 already
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<p>03:33 <@nop> answer : real life
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<p>03:33 <@nop> :)
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<p>03:33 <@nop> ok
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<p>03:33 <@mids> is this time correct or need a better one?
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<p>03:34 <@nop> so far it's not conflicting
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<p>03:34 <@mids> (it took 1:30 hours now_
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<p>03:34 <@nop> well
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<p>03:34 <@nop> this is a first meeting
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<p>03:34 <@nop> so I can see why
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<p>03:34 <@nop> we'll get better
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<p>03:34 <@codeshark> well a bit earlier would be nice
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<p>03:34 <@nop> and shorter
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<p>03:34 <@nop> :)
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<p>03:34 <@codeshark> if possible
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<p>03:34 <@nop> the conflict with that
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<p>03:34 <@mids> yes, please
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<p>03:34 <@nop> hmm
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<p>03:34 <@nop> I can't do too much earlier
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<p>03:34 <@codeshark> it's 4 am soon :(
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<p>03:34 <@mids> 1 hour shorter would be fine
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<p>03:34 <@codeshark> yeah, right
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<p>03:35 <@nop> hmm
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<p>03:35 <@mids> more q's?
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<p>03:36 <@codeshark> mids: what is cohesion doing right now?
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<p>03:36 <@nop> let's try this for a bit, and see if it's workable
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<p>03:36 <@codeshark> on the docs?
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<p>03:36 <@nop> dunno
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<p>03:36 <@mids> codeshark: dont ask me
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<p>03:36 <@nop> he needs to work on contact
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<p>03:36 <@mids> btw 1 yodel for everybody attending this meeting
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<p>03:36 <@nop> thnx
|
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<p>03:36 <@nop> :)
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<p>03:36 <@codeshark> hehe, thanks mids :)
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<p>03:37 <@codeshark> btw: right now we have 4 systems to create help files :(
|
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<p>03:37 <@nop> closing
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<p>03:38 <@mids> I will leave the log running for a couple of hours
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<p>03:38 <@mids> its available on that url
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<p>03:38 <@nop> meeting ajouned, thank you for all attending
|
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<p>03:38 <@nop> see you next week
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<p>03:38 <@codeshark> same time, same place?
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<p>03:38 <@nop> yes
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<p>03:39 <@nop> thnx all
|
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<p>03:39 * nop will brb after these messages
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<p>03:39 * codeshark will go to sleep soon
|
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<p>03:39 <@mids> night
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<p>03:46 <@nop> night
|
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<p>03:47 <+logger> Ended logging
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<p>--- Log closed Wed May 22 03:47:55 2002
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</div>
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{% endblock %}
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