225 lines
17 KiB
HTML
225 lines
17 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 105{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}<h3>I2P dev meeting, August 31, 2004</h3>
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<div class="irclog">
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 0) hi</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 1) 0.3.4.3</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 2) 0.3.5 and 0.4</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 3) docs</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 4) stasher update</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 5) ???</p>
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<p>14:04 < jrandom> 0) hi</p>
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<p>14:04 * jrandom waves</p>
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<p>14:05 < deer> * Pseudonym waves</p>
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<p>14:05 * hypercubus flaps</p>
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<p>14:05 < deer> * detonate waves</p>
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<p>14:05 < jrandom> weekly status notes @ http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-August/000425.html</p>
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<p>14:05 < jrandom> moving on to 1) 0.3.4.3</p>
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<p>14:06 < jrandom> as it says in the notes, and as you all know from firsthand experience, the net isn't too healthy atm</p>
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<p>14:06 < jrandom> lots of messages are lost, and people are often seeing warnings about their leases having expired a while back</p>
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<p>14:07 < jrandom> this is unfortunate, and largely addressed in CVS, which will be rolled out when we can (see item 2)</p>
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<p>14:07 < kaji> (late) hi</p>
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<p>14:08 < jrandom> anyway, i think thats all i've got to mention on 0.3.4.3, beyond whats in the email. i appreciate your patience as we move forward through the rough patches</p>
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<p>14:08 < jrandom> swinging on up to 2) 0.3.5 and 0.4 (unless someone has anything else they'd like to add..?)</p>
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<p>14:09 < deer> <oOo> So 90% of broken nodes can knock down the network ^^</p>
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<p>14:09 < deer> * Pseudonym eagerly awaits the release of 0.3.5</p>
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<p>14:09 < kaji> who was running the dos? they did a good job</p>
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<p>14:10 < jrandom> well, I can reach squid consistently from my other CVS HEAD boxes</p>
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<p>14:10 < jrandom> so the network isn't 'knocked out' for people on cvs head :)</p>
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<p>14:10 * lucky is having partial success with .3.4.3 still.</p>
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<p>14:10 < jrandom> but yeah, the old peer selection algorithm did some Stupid Things</p>
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<p>14:10 < deer> <oOo> I'm on CVS head and lost suid.i2p a lot of time ;)</p>
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<p>14:11 < jrandom> hmm</p>
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<p>14:11 < jrandom> what are you seeing for a tunnel failure rate? </p>
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<p>14:12 < jrandom> (total # events at /routerStats.html#tunnel.failAfterTime compared with total # events at #tunnel.buildFrequency )</p>
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<p>14:13 < deer> <oOo> lifetime average value: 288 268,91 over 339,00 events</p>
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<p>14:13 < jrandom> and tunnel.buildFrequency?</p>
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<p>14:14 < deer> <oOo> But you might have been restarting your router too much while repairing thread leaks ;)</p>
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<p>14:14 < jrandom> what is your lifetime # of tunnel.buildFrequency?</p>
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<p>14:14 < deer> <oOo> 24h frequency: avg per period: (2,76, max 2,76, current is 100,00% of max) strict average per period: 5 645,58 events (averaged using the lifetime of 5 729,00 events)</p>
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<p>14:14 < deer> <oOo> 24h ~= router lifetime</p>
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<p>14:15 < jrandom> so ~5% tunnel failure</p>
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<p>14:15 < jrandom> thats about what i've been seeing on CVS HEAD, as opposed to the 40-60% tunnel failure of 0.3.4.3</p>
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<p>14:16 < deer> <oOo> Let's swing on up to 2) then ;)</p>
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<p>14:16 < jrandom> consider it swung</p>
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<p>14:16 < jrandom> ok, as mentioned in the email, the next rev will be 0.3.5, not 0.4</p>
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<p>14:16 < jrandom> it'll have all the goodies y'all have been waiting for, but it won't have the "0.4 stamp of approval" ;)</p>
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<p>14:17 < deer> <Pseudonym> 0.4.rc-1</p>
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<p>14:17 < jrandom> well, i considered going down the rc road, but I dont want to be overconfident</p>
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<p>14:17 < kaji> 0.4.rc-0.9</p>
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<p>14:17 < deer> <Pseudonym> heh</p>
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<p>14:18 < kaji> beta</p>
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<p>14:18 < jrandom> while 0.3.5 is out, I'm going to see if we can mount the DoS again, as well as a variety of new issues that we should be able to come up with</p>
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<p>14:18 < lucky> we have to keep DoSing it till it works while being DoSed</p>
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<p>14:18 < jrandom> right</p>
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<p>14:19 < kaji> dos it till it cant be dosed no more</p>
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<p>14:19 < deer> <Pseudonym> but no new features between 0.3.5 and 0.4 right?</p>
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<p>14:19 < jrandom> perhaps someone can be inspired to help out with implementing some churn and fail cases in the simulator, so we can test this stuff more easily and automatically... ;)</p>
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<p>14:20 < jrandom> correct Pseudonym, I do not expect any significant new features to come during 0.3.5</p>
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<p>14:20 < jrandom> at least, from an app user perspective</p>
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<p>14:20 < jrandom> perhaps some developer will take this time to improve upon the eepproxy, a transparent webserver, help out aum, etc </p>
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<p>14:21 * jrandom pokes at someone hacking on an irc proxy w/ DCC support ;)</p>
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<p>14:21 < deer> <duck> a public inproxy for i2p/tor is in the make</p>
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<p>14:21 < jrandom> ah nice, html specific, or bitpipe?</p>
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<p>14:21 < jrandom> er, web specific, that is</p>
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<p>14:22 < deer> <duck> web specific</p>
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<p>14:22 < jrandom> w3rd</p>
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<p>14:22 < deer> <duck> the idea being that an ISP can put up some gateways to specific sites</p>
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<p>14:22 < deer> <duck> so the world can access alexandria</p>
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<p>14:23 < jrandom> ooh, what would *really* rule is if those gateways could act as vhosts</p>
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<p>14:23 < jrandom> (maybe thats what you're talking about anyway)</p>
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<p>14:23 < deer> <duck> http://anonygateway.com/home.duck.i2p/~alexandria/</p>
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<p>14:23 < jrandom> ah ok</p>
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<p>14:23 < jrandom> still cool</p>
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<p>14:23 < deer> <duck> http://anonygateway.com/6sxoyfb3h2nvok2d.onion/</p>
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<p>14:24 < deer> <duck> virtual host is also possible; just for a next iteration</p>
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<p>14:24 < jrandom> (though 6sxoyfb3h2nvok2d.onion.anonygateway.com would be cooler ;)</p>
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<p>14:24 < jrandom> right right</p>
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<p>14:24 < deer> <duck> easy to do with a mod_rewrite ofcourse</p>
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<p>14:25 < cervantes> or just set up a subdomain :)</p>
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<p>14:25 < kaji> hah vhost a bittorent seed</p>
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<p>14:25 < deer> <duck> I am paying dev out of my pocket; patch will be pub domain</p>
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<p>14:25 < jrandom> duck++</p>
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<p>14:26 < deer> <duck> also talking with an ISP who might want to offer it as a paid service</p>
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<p>14:26 < jrandom> nice</p>
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<p>14:26 < deer> <duck> ofcourse it is better when anarchistgang.org does so</p>
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<p>14:26 < deer> <duck> but you know the stability of those types</p>
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<p>14:26 < jrandom> *cough*</p>
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<p>14:27 < cervantes> their quackers</p>
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<p>14:27 < cervantes> *they're</p>
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<p>14:27 < deer> <jon2> hi!!!!!!</p>
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<p>14:27 * hypercubus snickers</p>
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<p>14:27 < jrandom> hi jon2</p>
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<p>14:27 < deer> <jon2> I like meeting >:-D</p>
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<p>14:28 < jrandom> i think after the net is settled down a bit more (once 0.3.5 is out there), we'll want to reevaluate some app level activities</p>
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<p>14:28 < deer> <duck> *cough* myi2p?</p>
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<p>14:28 < jrandom> heh</p>
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<p>14:29 < kaji> what about access behind a firewall?</p>
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<p>14:29 < deer> <jon2> yes, firewall access :)</p>
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<p>14:29 < jrandom> we need something rock solid, usable, *and* secure, that provides functionality that people want (and hopefully, that we can use to encourage community)</p>
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<p>14:30 < deer> * duck points at 0.4.2 @ http://www.i2p.net/roadmap</p>
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<p>14:30 < jrandom> believe me, i want access behind firewalls / uncontrollable NATs / etc just as much as the rest of you.</p>
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<p>14:30 < deer> <jon2> I can do the secure part, I know cryptophagy.</p>
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<p>14:30 < jrandom> (someone has to add that as a quote ;)</p>
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<p>14:30 * hypercubus wonders what a cryptophage is</p>
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<p>14:31 < jrandom> jon2 - we definitely need help on this stuff and would love to snag some of your time!</p>
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<p>14:31 * kaji just started back to school, he would like to take i2p with him ;)</p>
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<p>14:31 < aum> morning all</p>
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<p>14:31 < cervantes> btw I'm wondering if any devs miss their little i2p blogs.... if perhaps they should get devoted forum sections, at least in the short term...</p>
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<p>14:31 < cervantes> *if so</p>
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<p>14:31 < deer> <jon2> cryptophagy, science of security.</p>
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<p>14:31 < jrandom> 'mornin aum</p>
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<p>14:32 < hypercubus> jon2: do you also know cryptography?</p>
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<p>14:32 < deer> <jon2> Good morning aum.</p>
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<p>14:32 < jrandom> cervantes: i'm holding off until i can get a blog of my own, which hopefully wont be too far off</p>
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<p>14:32 < deer> <jon2> no :-(</p>
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<p>14:33 < cervantes> jrandom: and everyone else?</p>
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<p>14:33 < jrandom> nightblade has been using his blog @ cashdollar.org</p>
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<p>14:33 < deer> <jon2> I have a blog on blogs.aspnet.com</p>
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<p>14:33 < jrandom> though i suppose it'd be cool to have people posting on the forum</p>
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<p>14:34 < cervantes> ah good...well it seems most have found alternatives....but it's a same they've become fragmented</p>
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<p>14:34 < jrandom> yeah</p>
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<p>14:34 < cervantes> *shame</p>
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<p>14:34 < cervantes> darn fingerzzz</p>
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<p>14:34 < lucky> well, a phage is part oft he immune system.</p>
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<p>14:34 < jrandom> i liked having the devblogs on the site. we'll get something back eventually</p>
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<p>14:34 < hypercubus> jon2: funny, blogs.aspnet.com is an unclaimed domain</p>
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<p>14:34 < jrandom> ok, anyway, anything else for 2) 0.3.5 and 0.4 ?</p>
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<p>14:35 < hypercubus> yeah</p>
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<p>14:35 < hypercubus> i've got the firefox problem solved now, in cvs</p>
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<p>14:35 < jrandom> w000t</p>
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<p>14:36 < deer> <jon2> I am asp developer.</p>
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<p>14:36 < hypercubus> reads the default from the registry</p>
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<p>14:36 < cervantes> :)</p>
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<p>14:36 < deer> <jon2> sorry.. I mean blogs.asp.net</p>
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<p>14:36 < hypercubus> no you don't</p>
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<p>14:36 < deer> <jon2> weblogs.asp.net</p>
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<p>14:36 < jrandom> ah, great hypercubus. so we're almost there for the 0.3.5 release</p>
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<p>14:37 < cervantes> shudder....asp</p>
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<p>14:37 < hypercubus> yes i can feel it getting close</p>
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<p>14:37 < jrandom> ok, moving on to 3) docs</p>
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<p>14:37 < jrandom> well, I dont have anything to add beyond my request in the email</p>
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<p>14:38 < jrandom> (send in your questions! post 'em to the list, send 'em in email, post 'em on the forum)</p>
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<p>14:38 < deer> <oOo> Yeah, anonymously use the forum and make Cervantes happy ;)</p>
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<p>14:39 * cervantes gets all tingly</p>
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<p>14:39 * hypercubus adjusts the rabbit ears</p>
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<p>14:40 < nicktastic> haha</p>
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<p>14:40 < deer> <jon2> I liked this meeting..</p>
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<p>14:40 < cervantes> you said that...</p>
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<p>14:40 < cervantes> <deer> <jon2> I like meeting >:-D</p>
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<p>14:40 < hypercubus> great, you get to buy the donuts next time ;-)</p>
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<p>14:40 < jrandom> ok, if there's nothing else, 4) stasher update</p>
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<p>14:41 < jrandom> aum seems to have awoken early... you still 'round?</p>
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<p>14:41 < deer> <jon2> GREAT MEETING!</p>
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<p>14:41 * hypercubus wonders if dm has children</p>
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<p>14:41 < jrandom> heh, yeah, he's back ;)</p>
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<p>14:41 < cervantes> I'd think it's an impossibility</p>
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<p>14:42 < hypercubus> guess aum missed that first cuppa</p>
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<p>14:42 < jrandom> ok, maybe he'll swing back to the term</p>
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<p>14:42 < jrandom> anyway, his general update was posted in the email</p>
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<p>14:42 < jrandom> looks like there's lots of progress going on</p>
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<p>14:43 < jrandom> some questions remain, but ever onward </p>
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<p>14:43 < deer> <oOo> But no release date given ;)</p>
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<p>14:43 < hypercubus> how many people are testing it atm?</p>
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<p>14:43 < jrandom> i dont know if the code he has now w/ the things mentioned is public yet</p>
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<p>14:43 < hypercubus> ah</p>
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<p>14:44 < deer> <jon2> BAF BAF BAF BAF BAF</p>
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<p>14:44 < kaji> whats new about stasher?</p>
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<p>14:44 < jrandom> kaji: see the http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-August/000425.html</p>
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<p>14:45 < deer> <oOo> It now use less water to wash the dishes</p>
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<p>14:45 < hypercubus> i've been waiting for that feature</p>
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<p>14:45 * jrandom too</p>
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<p>14:45 < jrandom> ok</p>
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<p>14:45 < jrandom> if aum is still afk, swinging on to 5) ???</p>
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<p>14:45 < jrandom> does anyone else have something they want to bring up?</p>
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<p>14:45 * cervantes puts on a tin hat</p>
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<p>14:46 < lucky> How's jetta for serving web pages coming along?</p>
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<p>14:46 < jrandom> i dont know of anyone working on an app to safely allow people to host pages with jetty</p>
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<p>14:46 < jrandom> (host pages that can be served as an eepsite, that is)</p>
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<p>14:47 < jrandom> jetty does allow people to deploy client applications (though i dont know anyone working on a web based app yet either)</p>
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<p>14:47 < hypercubus> i'd like to say something about systray4j vs. SWT</p>
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<p>14:47 < jrandom> mmhmm?</p>
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<p>14:47 < hypercubus> the cost of ditching systray4j for SWT: we'd be dropping systray4j.jar and systray4j.dll, shedding 147 KB from our distribution size -- and replacing that with swt.jar (885 KB) + native libs (332 KB on Win, 639 KB on *nix), a net difference of 1.2-1.5 MB, but with that we gain systray icons on KDE, Gnome, and OS X as well as Win32, and also launch icons for plain X environments a la NextStep/GNUstep</p>
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<p>14:48 < hypercubus> and this will give us the ability to add other GUI components later, independent of the JRE the user has (otherwise, accomodating Kaffe users would limit us to using AWT only)</p>
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<p>14:48 < hypercubus> just food for thought... maybe down the road</p>
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<p>14:48 < jrandom> worth discussing, down the road, as users demand it</p>
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<p>14:49 < jrandom> if the value is there, the value is there</p>
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<p>14:49 < deer> <oOo> Web interface is intend to be the GUI, isn't it ?</p>
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<p>14:49 < hypercubus> cervantes had a cool idea to make further use of SWT</p>
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<p>14:49 < hypercubus> an I2P dashboard ;-)</p>
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<p>14:49 < jrandom> yes oOo</p>
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<p>14:49 < hypercubus> oh, and skins! j/k</p>
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<p>14:49 < jrandom> i'd really much rather have that sort of functionality built into the router console, if you mean what i think you mean</p>
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<p>14:50 < hypercubus> point is...</p>
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<p>14:50 < cervantes> it might also encourage application development if i2p comes with a nice set of SWT libraries</p>
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<p>14:50 < hypercubus> it seems development on systray4j is winding down or otherwise mired</p>
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<p>14:50 < deer> <oOo> As long as systray and GUI stuff aren't mandatory to have a fully working router...</p>
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<p>14:50 < jrandom> right oOo</p>
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<p>14:50 < hypercubus> i don't see them fixing the KDE version anytime soon</p>
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<p>14:51 < hypercubus> correct, we could just add a hook in the router's systray class</p>
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<p>14:51 < hypercubus> and the user could optionally download the systray/SWT stuff</p>
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<p>14:51 < jrandom> hypercubus: personally, i'm not entirely 100% sure the user base will even need a systray. i think we need to deploy it and get feedback to know the value</p>
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<p>14:51 < jrandom> cervantes: client application developers can absolutely bundle SWT with their app</p>
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<p>14:51 < jrandom> (or say "get SWT")</p>
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<p>14:51 < hypercubus> i suspect we'll get requests for expanded systray options</p>
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<p>14:52 < jrandom> and if a client app dev gets something we want to bundle with the router, we'll deploy swt with the bundle</p>
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<p>14:52 < jrandom> (etc)</p>
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<p>14:52 < deer> <oOo> Too late to split the console/status monitor/whatever from the really-routing-stuff ?</p>
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<p>14:52 < jrandom> really routing stuff?</p>
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<p>14:52 < jrandom> the router console is a fully seperate client application</p>
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<p>14:53 < jrandom> (apps/routnerconsole/)</p>
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<p>14:53 < deer> <oOo> The stuff needed to have the bytes anonymously flowing</p>
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<p>14:53 < jrandom> i do think down the line we will want to have a minimal-router install as well</p>
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<p>14:53 < jrandom> (with nothing in clients.config, etc)</p>
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<p>14:53 < jrandom> but we dont have the developer hours to maintain multiple sets of things</p>
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<p>14:55 < jrandom> ok, anyone else have anything they want to bring up?</p>
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<p>14:57 < jrandom> if not</p>
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<p>14:57 * jrandom winds up</p>
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<p>14:57 < deer> <oOo> 0.3.5, when ? ;)</p>
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<p>14:57 < jrandom> it'll be out hopefully this week</p>
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<p>14:57 < jrandom> (in the next day or two if all goes well)</p>
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<p>14:57 < deer> <oOo> Ok ^^</p>
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<p>14:57 * jrandom stops winding up</p>
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<p>14:57 * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed</p>
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</div>
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{% endblock %} |