270 lines
16 KiB
HTML
270 lines
16 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 26{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}
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<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 26</h3>
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<div class="irclog">
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Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
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<p>
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<p>--- Log opened Tue Jan 14 22:44:57 2003
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<p>22:45 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
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<p>22:45 [Users #iip-dev]
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<p>22:45 [ logger] [ pox]
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<p>22:45 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 2 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 2 normal]
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<p>22:45 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 3 secs
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<p>23:48 -!- StoVoKor|away is now known as StoVoKor
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<p>23:58 < mids> Tue Jan 14 22:58:16 UTC 2003
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<p>23:59 < mids> 1 minute
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<p>--- Day changed Wed Jan 15 2003
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<p>00:00 < mids> Tue Jan 14 23:00:00 UTC 2003
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<p>00:00 < mids> Welcome to the 26th IIP meeting
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<p>00:00 < mids> I didn't get any agenda items from anybody, so I'll just propose my own:
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<p>00:00 < mids> - Release of 1.1-final
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<p>00:00 < mids> do you guys have anything else to add?
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<p>00:00 < hezekiah> (I propose an agenda item: What's the current major feature being worked on in IIP 1.2 dev?)
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<p>00:01 < mids> great
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<p>00:01 < FillaMent> I have a couple suggestions for additions to anonymail
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<p>00:01 < mids> ok
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<p>00:01 < mids> Agenda:
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<p>00:02 < mids> - What's the current major feature being worked on in IIP 1.2 dev
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<p>00:02 < mids> - Anonymail suggestions
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<p>00:02 < mids> - Release of 1.1-final
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<p>00:02 < mids> .
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<p>00:02 * mids hands the microphone to hezekiah
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<p>00:02 < FillaMent> Also like to note a project that I'm working on that uses IIP
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<p>00:02 < hezekiah> I have no clue. It was actually a question. :) Nop?
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<p>00:02 * hezekiah hands the microphone to nop.
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<p>00:02 < nop> hi
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<p>00:02 < nop> ok
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<p>00:02 < nop> welcome
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<p>00:03 < nop> ok on the agenda
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<p>00:03 < nop> mids take it away
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<p>00:04 < mids> no, you tell what the status of 1.2 is
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<p>00:04 < nop> ok
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<p>00:04 < nop> well
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<p>00:04 < nop> lots of grindy stuff
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<p>00:04 < nop> mainly taking care of the grunt stuff
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<p>00:04 < hezekiah> (Ahmen!)
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<p>00:04 < nop> getting the core ready for hardcore decentralization and crypto, we're in the midst of deciding crypto libraries, we think cryptlib and GnuMP
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<p>00:05 < nop> and are looking at a few possibilities for routing, either the listener route concept, or possibly chord type routing
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<p>00:05 < nop> and that's mainly it for right now
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<p>00:05 < nop> for 1.2
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<p>00:05 < mids> cool
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<p>00:05 < nop> 1.1 status, is if no one has any bugs in a weeks time
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<p>00:06 < nop> then we will probably move to defcon 1.1
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<p>00:06 < nop> ;)
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<p>00:06 < nop> meaning 1.1 Release
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<p>00:06 < mids> stick to the agenda nop
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<p>00:06 < mids> anonymail features are first
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<p>00:06 < nop> I didn't see an agenda
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<p>00:06 < mids> :p
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<p>00:06 < hezekiah> Mids, behave! :)
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<p>00:06 < hezekiah> ;-)
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<p>00:06 < nop> ok
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<p>00:06 < nop> I guess anonymail suggestions
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<p>00:06 < mids> - Anonymail suggestions
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<p>00:06 < nop> take it away whoever that was
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<p>00:06 < mids> FillaMent?
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<p>00:06 < FillaMent> Okay, I just have two quick ones...
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<p>00:07 < FillaMent> 1) Some sort of escape character to do \n's.
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<p>00:07 < hezekiah> Yeah!
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<p>00:07 < FillaMent> Discuss or move on to #2?
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<p>00:07 < hezekiah> Perhaps, "\n" for a newline, and "\\n" for a literal, "\n".
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<p>00:08 < mids> what character do you suggest?
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<p>00:08 < mids> ok
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<p>00:08 < hezekiah> (Like how you would do in C with printf.)
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<p>00:08 < FillaMent> C, Perl, Java....
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<p>00:08 < hezekiah> C++ ... :)
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<p>00:08 < FillaMent> Nah, make it vbCRLF
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<p>00:08 < mids> and \\\\n for literal \\n :)
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<p>00:08 < hezekiah> Yup1
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<p>00:08 < mids> vbCRLF?
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<p>00:09 < FillaMent> visualbasicCarriageReturnLineFeed
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<p>00:09 < mids> are you serious?
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<p>00:09 < hezekiah> (I hope not.)
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<p>00:09 < FillaMent> I used to hack vbScript (no, I'm not serious. \n is what everyone will be familiar with)
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<p>00:09 < hezekiah> So, what was suggestion number 2?
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<p>00:10 < thecrypto> damn wireless network
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<p>00:10 < FillaMent> 2) Stripping non-plain text MIME garbage from mails that come from the internet and replacing it with something to the effect of <One part MIME binary/word-doc stripped>
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<p>00:11 < FillaMent> Forgive me if I'm incorrectly implying MIME
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<p>00:11 < mids> I dont really agree
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<p>00:11 < mids> you should be able to receive RFC2015 compatible PGP signatures
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<p>00:11 < mids> and stuff
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<p>00:11 < hezekiah> Yeah.
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<p>00:12 < hezekiah> But changing Quoted-Printable to plain ASCII might not be a bad idea if it isn't already implemented.
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<p>00:12 < FillaMent> And that's a specific mime type?
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<p>00:12 < FillaMent> PGP sig I mean.
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<p>00:12 < mids> it is
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<p>00:12 < hezekiah> There are OpenPGP sigs that have a mime type.
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<p>00:12 < mids> I can understand that it will be a lot of work to do MIME right
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<p>00:13 < mids> since there are a lot of MIME types
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<p>00:13 < mids> and browsers who violate it
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<p>00:14 < hezekiah> "2) Stripping non-plain text MIME ..." (Wouldn't they be in base64 if they aren't plain ASCII anyway? And if not, then couldn't they just be converted?)
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<p>00:14 < mids> maybe we should just forward the suggestions to codeshark
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<p>00:15 < mids> since he knows how the app looks
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<p>00:15 < hezekiah> Or even, if it has to be stripped, you could offer an option to retrieve it (in base64 or 7-bit.) That way you can save it via copy-paste, and decode/read it on your hard drive.
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<p>00:15 < mids> (he made it)
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<p>00:15 < mids> and what he can implement
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<p>00:15 < hezekiah> Good idea!
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<p>00:15 < FillaMent> The other day I got a mail that was written with MS Outaluck/W3rd and it came in as multipart MIME. The first part was a plain txt version of the message, the second was an RTF will all the formatting Markup
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<p>00:15 < nop> this is something
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<p>00:15 < nop> that needs to be sent to anonymail
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<p>00:15 < nop> oops
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<p>00:15 < nop> codeshark
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<p>00:15 < mids> yeah
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<p>00:15 * FillaMent digresses.
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<p>00:15 < mids> lets just pass it on
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<p>00:15 < mids> and see what his imput is
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<p>00:16 < mids> - Release of IIP 1.1-final
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<p>00:16 < mids> my comments: got to check the sourceforge bugtracker
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<p>00:16 < mids> but I dont think that there are any code bugs open
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<p>00:17 < hezekiah> Not the last time I saw ... (checking now.)
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<p>00:17 < mids> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=651711&group_id=50945&atid=461514
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<p>00:17 < mids> (files stored in wrong dir)
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<p>00:17 < mids> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=655568&group_id=50945&atid=461514
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<p>00:17 < mids> (-h doesnt work)
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<p>00:17 < mids> that option DOES work for me
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<p>00:17 < mids> please check it
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<p>00:18 < mids> and if it works for everybody, we got to mark that report as invalid
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<p>00:18 < mids> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=654147&group_id=50945&atid=461514
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<p>00:18 < mids> (FreeBSD socket call)
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<p>00:18 < mids> I dont have FreeBSD, someone with FreeBSD should check
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<p>00:19 < mids> .
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<p>00:19 < mids> Also we should really really supply some script that people can put in their /etc/init.d/
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<p>00:20 < mids> ping?
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<p>00:20 < hezekiah> It looks like the guy who did the FreeBSD bug ...
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<p>00:21 < hezekiah> ... already found and pointed out the problem.
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<p>00:21 < hezekiah> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=50945&atid=461514&file_id=37660&aid=654147
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<p>00:22 < hezekiah> That's the link to the patch file. AF_INET apparently needs to be PF_INET on FreeBSD.
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<p>00:22 < hezekiah> The patch was simple:
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> 484,489c484
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < // If statement added by wiht, since FreeBSD uses PF_INET.
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < #ifdef __FreeBSD__
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < sh->Socket = socket(PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < #else
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < sh->Socket = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> < #endif
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> ---
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> > sh->Socket = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);//PF_INET);
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<p>00:23 < mids> I see, but then I dont know why the original ifdef was there at first?
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> What do you think, nop?
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<p>00:23 < hezekiah> The top section should be the new code. The bottom section should be the old.
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<p>00:23 < nop> that should work
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<p>00:24 < hezekiah> Yeah. The bottom is the old.
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<p>00:24 < nop> you should commit looks fine
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<p>00:24 < hezekiah> Do you want me to write it up, commit, and label the bug as fixed, nop?
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<p>00:24 < nop> but why is it different
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<p>00:24 < hezekiah> Apparently, FreeBSD requires PF_INET instead of AF_INET as the first arguement for socket.
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<p>00:25 < hezekiah> I don't know why.
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<p>00:25 < hezekiah> But, the writter said this fixed the problem. Commit?
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<p>00:25 < nop> yes
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<p>00:25 < hezekiah> OK.
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<p>00:25 < mids> ok
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<p>00:26 < mids> who can look into the filepath problem?
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<p>00:27 < FillaMent> I don't get that problem. If I try and start IIP as a different user or not in ~iip it says it can't write the log
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<p>00:28 < mids> ok, we got to check the reported bugs and report on that on the mailinglist
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<p>00:28 < mids> lets try to do that this week
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<p>00:28 < mids> .
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<p>00:28 < mids> The biggest problem is the scalability of IIP
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<p>00:28 < mids> RC2 was kinda stable
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<p>00:28 < mids> RC3 isnt
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<p>00:29 < mids> why?
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<p>00:29 < mids> Imho it is because the node.ref is so big
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<p>00:29 < mids> so a lot of potential bad node
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<p>00:29 < mids> nodes
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<p>00:29 < mids> it is really, anonymity vs stability
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<p>00:29 < mids> .
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<p>00:29 < hezekiah> I noticed that. But some of them are just slow, not necisarily bad.
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<p>00:29 < mids> the problem is the lot of people Pinging Out
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<p>00:30 < mids> the solution that I suggest is releasing RC3 with a minimal node.ref
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<p>00:30 < mids> only 4 nodes or something
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<p>00:30 < mids> .
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<p>00:31 < nop> I agree
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<p>00:31 < FillaMent> Pardon my lack of design knowledge... IIRC uses relays like freenet and IRC, right?
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<p>00:32 < FillaMent> node == relay
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<p>00:32 < mids> they are more static
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<p>00:32 < mids> once you connect
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<p>00:32 < nop> well
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<p>00:32 < nop> at least in 1.1
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<p>00:32 < mids> you stay connected through them for the same session
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<p>00:32 < nop> they won't be forever
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<p>00:32 < FillaMent> But, it's still one node passes to other nodes
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<p>00:32 < nop> yes
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<p>00:33 < mids> if you keep a big list of nodes, then the path is very long
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<p>00:33 < mids> hence a lot of potential problems
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<p>00:33 < FillaMent> Why not just make it so that it goes through the node.ref and picks a few at random, and keeps doing that. The user could maybe set the number. This would maybe distribute the load a little more?
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<p>00:34 < mids> the current protocol doesnt support selecting the amount of hops
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<p>00:34 < nop> and we're not changing it in this version
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<p>00:34 < nop> ;)
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<p>00:34 < FillaMent> Okay, then it's outside my technical knowledge... what about the starting point?
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<p>00:34 < FillaMent> or is the TTL the number or nodes in node.ref
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<p>00:35 < FillaMent> s/or/of/
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<p>00:35 < mids> each node connects to a node in its node.ref at random
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<p>00:35 < mids> until it 'accidently' hits the server
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<p>00:35 < mids> so if you have a lot of nodes
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<p>00:35 < FillaMent> got it.
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<p>00:35 < mids> it will have huge paths
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<p>00:36 < mids> that is why I would suggest a manually crafter first layer of public nodes
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<p>00:36 < FillaMent> Could another solution be to make 'the' server 'a' server?
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<p>00:36 < mids> so you decrease the amount of hops
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<p>00:36 < LeeroklaLacerta> Is there any sort of reliability-index-type thing?
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<p>00:36 < mids> you only have 1 end-node
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<p>00:36 < mids> there isnt, since you dont know what nodes a node connects through
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<p>00:37 < mids> if your connection goes down, you dont know what node caused it
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<p>00:37 < mids> it can be anyone on your path
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<p>00:37 < LeeroklaLacerta> K.
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<p>00:37 < mids> and you dont know your path
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<p>00:37 < FillaMent> Is there anyway for the end user it increase the reliability of IIP?
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<p>00:37 < mids> yes, manually edit your node.ref
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<p>00:38 < mids> and put only some stable nodes on it
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<p>00:38 < mids> and dont let it update the node.ref automatically
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<p>00:38 < FillaMent> mids: I mean setting up a relay or something.
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<p>00:38 < mids> ofcourse you dont know what are stable nodes, unless you have some inside knowledge about the IIP topography
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<p>00:39 < mids> Trent for example directly connects to a node which connects to the IIP server node
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<p>00:39 < mids> otherwise it would go down all the time
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<p>00:39 < mids> resulting in a really bad network
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<p>00:41 < FillaMent> To save me some time, where does iip store the nodes.ref on a linux box?
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<p>00:41 < mids> ~/.iip/
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<p>00:41 < mids> or the local directory
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<p>00:42 < mids> ok, I want to quit this item
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<p>00:42 < mids> homework for next week:
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<p>00:42 < mids> think about the issues
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<p>00:42 < mids> and propose suggestions to the mailinglist
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<p>00:42 < FillaMent> Give me 10 min and I'll have a kludge for the massive node list problem
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<p>00:42 < mids> or to a developper (if you arent subscribed)
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<p>00:43 < mids> .
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<p>00:43 < mids> questions?
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<p>00:51 < hezekiah> You almost have your "kludge" (I don't know what that word means) for the node list problem yet, FillaMent?
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<p>00:52 < FillaMent> kludge is coding duct tape, and yes.
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<p>00:52 < hezekiah> Ah.
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<p>00:53 < thecrypto> the full definition is http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/kluge.html
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<p>00:54 < mids> hezekiah: thanks for putting your hands on those 2 bugtracker items
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<p>00:55 < hezekiah> No problem. I still don't know how to assign a bug to myself. Otherwise, I would have "officially" picked up the PF_INET one.
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<p>00:55 < hezekiah> I couldn't find the button/link/whatever that lets you assign a bug to yourself.
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<p>00:57 < mids> only project admins seem to be able to assign bugs for our project
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<p>00:57 < hezekiah> Ah
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<p>00:57 < hezekiah> That would explain it! :)
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<p>00:59 < hezekiah> OK. Well, I'm going to leave now. Bye everyone! :)
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<p>00:59 < LeeroklaLacerta> Good bye.
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<p>01:04 < mids> ok
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<p>01:04 < mids> I am gone too
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<p>01:04 < mids> bye
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<p>01:08 < LeeroklaLacerta> Everyone's leavin'?
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<p>01:08 < LeeroklaLacerta> Is the meeting over?
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<p>01:09 < FillaMent> I'm still here. Perhaps my time estimate was a bit off. I love/hate perl.
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<p>01:10 < LeeroklaLacerta> What's perl got to do with it?
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<p>01:10 < FillaMent> My node.ref kluge
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<p>01:10 < LeeroklaLacerta> Ah.
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<p>01:11 < FillaMent> I should just describe it to someone competant and let them do it in like 5min
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<p>01:11 < LeeroklaLacerta> I'm just here for the heck of it.
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<p>01:16 < LeeroklaLacerta> I'm going back to #anonymous.
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<p>01:17 < FillaMent> Ha ha!
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<p>01:39 < FillaMent> Anyone care to enlighten me as to why in perl, when I push an item into an array, /every/ item ends up being that item?
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<p>02:59 < sdgg> hi
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<p>03:05 < FillaMent> Know how long an md5 signature is supposed to be?
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<p>03:10 < sdgg> 128 bits I believe
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<p>03:14 < sdgg> Does anyone know of a good tutorial on c/c++ for *nix programming?
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<p>03:14 < sdgg> Or somewhere I can look?
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<p>05:10 * FillaMent is away: Destinking myself
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</div>
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{% endblock %}
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