209 lines
14 KiB
HTML
209 lines
14 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 35{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}
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<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 35</h3>
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<div class="irclog">
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Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
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<p>
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<p>--- Log opened Tue Mar 25 22:07:19 2003
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<p>22:07 -!- Topic for #iip-dev: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
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<p>22:07 [Users #iip-dev]
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<p>22:07 [@hezekiah] [ Aprogas] [ logger] [ mids] [ poX] [ UserX]
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<p>22:07 -!- Irssi: #iip-dev: Total of 6 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal]
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<p>22:07 -!- Irssi: Join to #iip-dev was synced in 3 secs
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<p>22:07 < UserX> yes
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<p>22:07 <@hezekiah> OK. :)
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<p>22:07 < mids> log is up http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting35/livelog.txt
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<p>22:07 < Aprogas> /exec -o tail -f http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting35/livelog.txt
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<p>22:08 < Aprogas> loops are fun
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<p>22:08 < mids> unless anybody has any agenda;
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<p>22:08 < mids> I'd like to hear what the official proposals are for the decentralized routing protocol
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<p>22:09 < Aprogas> then at least have 1. decentral routing protocl 2. question as agenda
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<p>22:09 < mids> 1) welcome
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<p>22:09 < mids> 2) decentralized protocol
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<p>22:09 < mids> 3) WVTTK
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<p>22:09 < mids> 4) questions
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<p>22:09 < Aprogas> thats dutch
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<p>22:10 < mids> whats the english word for it?
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<p>22:10 < Aprogas> 3) WCTTA
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<p>22:10 < Aprogas> maybe
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<p>22:10 < Aprogas> but latin would be more elite
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<p>22:10 < Aprogas> where is the director to tell me to shut up and get back to the point ?
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<p>22:10 <@hezekiah> Aprogas: be quite and get back to the point. ;-)
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<p>22:10 < mids> quod etcetera mensa venit
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<p>22:11 < Aprogas> hezekiah: thanks
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<p>22:11 < mids> -1-
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<p>22:11 < mids> Welcome everybody!
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<p>22:11 <@hezekiah> Hiya! :)
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<p>22:11 < mids> as you see, the regular meetings are earlier as the other 33 ones from now on
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<p>22:11 < mihi> hi mids
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<p>22:11 < mids> .
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<p>22:11 < mids> -2-
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<p>22:11 < Aprogas> to better fit the mainly US/EU users of IIP ?
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<p>22:12 < nop> yo
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<p>22:12 < Aprogas> hello nop
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<p>22:12 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o nop] by Trent
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<p>22:12 <@nop> got the page
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<p>22:12 <@hezekiah> Hiya, nop! :)
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<p>22:12 < mids> Aprogas: it would fit better for UserX / nop
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<p>22:12 <@nop> is userx alive?
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<p>22:12 < Aprogas> dont forget to change your nick to noP
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<p>22:12 -!- nop is now known as noP
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<p>22:12 < mids> 2) I'd like to hear what the official proposals are for the decentralized routing protocol
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<p>22:12 <@noP> thnx aprogas
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<p>22:12 <@noP> we have no official proposal till Friday 21:00
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<p>22:12 < UserX> noP: i'm here
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<p>22:13 <@noP> that is to be discussed
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<p>22:13 <@noP> there are semi-official proposals in www.invisiblenet.net/research
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<p>22:13 < Aprogas> can i join that discussion to give totally useless suggestions ?
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<p>22:13 <@noP> which are many different proposals
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<p>22:13 <@hezekiah> Uh, oh. Looks like I have a lot of reading to do before Friday. ;-)
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<p>22:13 <@noP> we will log it
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<p>22:13 <@noP> and you can suggest
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<p>22:13 <@noP> during iip-dev meeting
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<p>22:14 <@noP> yeah hezekiah we added more stuff ;)
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<p>22:14 -!- mids changed the topic of #iip-dev to: IIP Meeting - logfiles: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/ - http://www.invisiblenet.net/research/
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<p>22:14 < mids> ok
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<p>22:14 < mids> .
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<p>22:14 < mids> quod etcetera mensa venit?
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<p>22:14 <@noP> brb
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<p>22:14 <@hezekiah> mids: What language is that?
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<p>22:15 < mids> latin
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<p>22:15 <@hezekiah> Ah.
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<p>22:15 < Aprogas> mensam sounds more correct
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<p>22:15 < mids> it should mean something like: what else comes to the table
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<p>22:15 < Aprogas> and `etcetera' isnt
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<p>22:15 < mids> et cetera
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<p>22:15 < Aprogas> but that still doesnt make sense
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<p>22:16 < mihi> quod ceterum ad mensam venit?
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<p>22:16 < Aprogas> maybe
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<p>22:16 < Aprogas> when will the IIP sourcecode be translated to latin using latin.h ?
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<p>22:16 < mihi> igpay atinlay? ;-)
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<p>22:16 < Aprogas> in other words, when will IIP development freeze to transfer those manhours to my latin.h project and complete it, only to then implement it in IIP ?
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<p>22:17 <@hezekiah> Never.
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<p>22:17 < mids> quod autem ad mensam venit
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<p>22:17 < mids> powered by http://www.latijnnederlands.nl/
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<p>22:17 < mids> .
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<p>22:17 < Aprogas> thats W Echter TTK
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<p>22:17 < mids> any IIP questions?
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<p>22:17 < mids> Aprogas: 2. verder, voorts, en dan (ter voortzetting of uitwerking v. iets voorafgaands).
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<p>22:17 < mihi> "*but* what comes to the table"?
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<p>22:17 < Aprogas> `what' does
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<p>22:18 < mids> mihi: questions, proposals, comments
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<p>22:18 < mihi> mids, you missed the ""
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<p>22:18 < Aprogas> anything that was talked about during the meeting but didnt fit in the point that was currently active
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<p>22:18 <@hezekiah> Is this item 3 on the agenda?
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<p>22:18 < Aprogas> hezekiah: i think we are at questions yet
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<p>22:18 < mids> hezekiah: yes
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<p>22:18 < Aprogas> the meeting seems chaotic and without any real content, except that the decision on the routing protocol will be made later
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<p>22:19 <@hezekiah> ... because I have no idea what "WVTTK" means and this conversation is definately obscure enough to be a possible candidate. ;-)
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<p>22:19 < mids> ok, /me formalizes
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<p>22:19 <@hezekiah> Right
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<p>22:19 < Aprogas> its probably because i am here
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<p>22:19 < mids> and because I had a lot of beer
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<p>22:19 < Aprogas> WVTTK in reality is anything that does not make sense
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<p>22:19 * mids moves on to point 4
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<p>22:20 < mids> any IIP related questions?
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<p>22:20 < Aprogas> how does the IIP team expect the userbase to grow, and when will massive PR start to stimulate more growth ?
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<p>22:20 < Aprogas> also, what kind of people does the IIP team expect to attract in the beginning, and with the PR campaign
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<p>22:21 < mids> past experience has tought that it is very easy to get on slashdot
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<p>22:21 < mids> which results in a quick increase of users
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<p>22:21 < mids> but you need Cool Features
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<p>22:21 < mids> to excuse an announcement
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<p>22:21 < Aprogas> well, most slashdot users dont stay long i think
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<p>22:21 < Aprogas> a few of them stay, but most just want to `check it out'
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<p>22:21 <@hezekiah> Right.
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<p>22:21 <@hezekiah> So once we decentralize we will have something to brag about on /.
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<p>22:22 < mids> then we can address some online magazines
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<p>22:22 < mids> like theregister
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<p>22:22 < mids> and/or wired
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<p>22:22 < Aprogas> you need cool features to excuse an announcement, and you need a cool application to keep them
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<p>22:22 <@hezekiah> Right.
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<p>22:22 < Aprogas> but slashdot is a pretty `limited' target group
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<p>22:22 < Aprogas> it only attracts a certain type of people
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<p>22:22 < mids> it is a part
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<p>22:22 < Aprogas> perhaps some more diversity would be good
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<p>22:22 < mids> you could also address some target audiences
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<p>22:22 <@hezekiah> I personally don't really care about attracting people. I just want a good program.
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<p>22:23 < mids> like writing to the dutch organisation Martijn :)
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<p>22:24 < mids> maybe some press release to AA groups, amnesty, EFF, scientology/cult critics
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<p>22:24 < mids> hezekiah: even with a good program you require a certain userbase to be able to offer decent traffic
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<p>22:25 < mids> you cant have only 2 users on your ultra-anonymous network
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<p>22:25 <@hezekiah> The way I look at it, if it's easy enough to find on freashmeat/sourceforge and it offers what people want (good anonymized chat), then people will use it.
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<p>22:26 <@hezekiah> Yes. That is a very primitive outlook on userbase growth.
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<p>22:26 < Aprogas> the average internet user does not search at sourceforge
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<p>22:26 < Aprogas> its hard to search for something if you dont know that it exists
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<p>22:26 < mids> hezekiah: freshmeat / sourceforge is only for the geeks
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<p>22:26 < mids> they think that anonymity is 'cool'
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<p>22:26 < mids> but dont really need it that much
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<p>22:26 <@hezekiah> Or they have people they don't want to be looking over their shoulder. :)
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<p>22:26 < mids> cause they have nothing to hide :)
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<p>22:27 <@hezekiah> But their paranoia helps them set up secure nodes.
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<p>22:27 <@hezekiah> I'm not sure I would want my message traffic running through Great Aunt Edna's Windows Me machine.
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<p>22:27 < mids> what is the target audience in your oppinion?
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<p>22:27 < mids> 16-23 year old linux kiddies?
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<p>22:27 <@hezekiah> Well, I really don't care who uses it.
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<p>22:28 < mids> or joe sixpack
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<p>22:28 <@hezekiah> I would just want the people who make the nodes to make them securely.
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<p>22:28 < Aprogas> maybe some lawyers to defend us
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<p>22:28 <@hezekiah> Beyond that, I just want to make the program better by good coding.
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<p>22:28 < Aprogas> if IIP is a proper program, it would take into account that not all nodes can be secure
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<p>22:28 <@hezekiah> Nop does some userbase kind of stuff. He seems to understand it pretty well.
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<p>22:29 < mids> what do you mean?
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<p>22:29 < Aprogas> hezekiah is the true programmer, he is afraid of users
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<p>22:29 <@hezekiah> Aprogas: IIP will do its best to be idiot proof, but the security of a system always comes down to the people who run it.
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<p>22:29 <@hezekiah> Aprogas: I'm not affraid of users. I just don't really care too much _who_ they are.
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<p>22:29 < mids> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/StrategyLetterV.html
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<p>22:30 <@hezekiah> mids: He does corporate stuff. Buisness kind of things. I still don't know how he got funding to hire Cap'n Crunch.
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<p>22:30 < mids> no comment
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<p>22:30 <@hezekiah> lol
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<p>22:33 < mids> I got nothing to say anymore
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<p>22:33 < mids> other questions?
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<p>22:33 < Aprogas> how many developers does IIP have right now, and how many hours per week do those developers spend (estimated)
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<p>22:33 <@hezekiah> Uh ..
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<p>22:34 <@hezekiah> That's a trick question actually. :)
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<p>22:34 < Aprogas> is it ?
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<p>22:34 <@hezekiah> Which _kind_ of developers are you looking for?
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<p>22:34 < Aprogas> i am not looking for developers
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<p>22:34 < Aprogas> i just want to know how the IIP development is doing
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<p>22:34 <@hezekiah> So you want to know about the developers who right isproxy?
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<p>22:35 < Aprogas> IIP is more than just isproxy i guess
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<p>22:35 <@hezekiah> Yeah.
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<p>22:35 < Aprogas> i just want to know how many people are currently spending time on IIP
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<p>22:35 <@hezekiah> That's why it's a trick question. :)
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<p>22:35 <@hezekiah> Then I have no idea! :) Not all of them are probably public!
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<p>22:35 < mids> how much time do you spend on IIP then?
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<p>22:35 < Aprogas> never mind, ill just go watch the sf's actitivity meter i guess
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<p>22:36 < Aprogas> if it has such information
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<p>22:36 <@hezekiah> I can tell you that right now (to the best of my knowledge) there are really only two people actively writting code for the isproxy source.
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<p>22:36 <@hezekiah> UserX and myself.
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<p>22:36 < mids> *nod*
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<p>22:36 < Aprogas> im not only talking about writing code
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<p>22:36 <@hezekiah> Nop is doing stuff in the background when he can that deals with neat protocols and theory.
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<p>22:36 < Aprogas> also about plannig stuff, for example that routing protocol
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<p>22:36 < Aprogas> just the project as a whole
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<p>22:36 <@hezekiah> OK ... this is an opensource project. The "developers" are anyone who pitches in an idea.
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<p>22:37 <@hezekiah> lol
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<p>22:37 < Aprogas> actually i want to know how many manhours are spent (wasted?) on IIP, so i can calculate how much money that represents
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<p>22:37 <@hezekiah> A lot trickier to answer than you thought, eh?
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<p>22:37 <@hezekiah> Well, I pretty much only know about work on isproxy.
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<p>22:37 < Aprogas> ok
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<p>22:37 <@hezekiah> That fluxuates based on how busy UserX and myself are.
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<p>22:37 <@noP> aprogas you're being nit picky
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<p>22:38 < Aprogas> its just that i want to know that if i were to donate money to this project, that i donate the right amount, not too much, not too little
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<p>22:38 <@noP> if you're not on the dev team
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<p>22:38 <@noP> then just don't waste your time
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<p>22:38 <@hezekiah> For example, right now I am very busy in real life, so I haven't been able to touch the isproxy code for over a week! (Ack!)
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<p>22:38 < Aprogas> so i want to know how much this project would `cost' in manhours
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<p>22:39 <@hezekiah> On an average week where I can write code, I might get in 4-5 hours. That's a wild stab in the dark! UserX seems to code in spurts (no offense) having periouds where he doesn't have much time and then one week where there is a flurry of commits. (He might be coding the whole time and just committing when he has completed code. I really don't know.)
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<p>22:39 <@hezekiah> Anyway, it's way to volatile for me to really get a handle on it.
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<p>22:40 < Aprogas> ok
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<p>22:41 < Aprogas> i have no more questions
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<p>22:43 * mids ends the suffering
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<p>22:43 * hezekiah hands mids the *baf*er
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<p>22:44 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o mids] by Trent
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<p>22:44 -!- logger was kicked from #iip-dev by mids [*baf*]
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<p>--- Log closed Tue Mar 25 22:45:02 2003
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</div>
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{% endblock %}
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