912 lines
48 KiB
HTML
912 lines
48 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}Meeting 47{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}<div class="irclog">
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<p>--> You are now talking on #iip-dev</p>
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<p>--- Topic for #iip-dev is IIP Meeting - logfiles:</p>
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<p> http://wiki.invisiblenet.net/?Meetings - http://www.invisiblenet.net/research/</p>
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<p><al-jebr> it's 21:13</p>
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<p><-- wilde has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p>--- Trent@anon.iip gives channel operator status to UserX</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><qriff> !time</p>
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<p><Ambience> al-jebr: 00:21 here</p>
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<p><nop> I believe everyone has settled</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Let's go. :)</p>
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<p><jrand0m> 11:06 here</p>
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<p><nop> let's start</p>
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<p><nop> anyone get my agenda</p>
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<p><nop> so they can play it back</p>
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<p><nop> I forgot the order</p>
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<p><-- leenookx has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><Ambience> my clock is 15 minutes ahead :)</p>
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<p>--> hifi (~MetroPipe@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> on the agenda</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 1) Welcome</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 2)Our Goodbyes</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 3)IIP development now</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 4) IIP development restructuring proposal</p>
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<p><qriff> actually its xx:13 everywhere...</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 5) Recruiting for services to aid with IIP</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <-- Delly has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <nop> 6) comments suggestions and people who want to help</p>
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<p><mids> 23:05:28 <@nop> 1) Welcome</p>
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<p><mids> 23:05:38 <@nop> 2)Our Goodbyes</p>
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<p><mids> 23:05:43 <@nop> 3)IIP development now</p>
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<p><mids> 23:05:56 <@nop> 4) IIP development restructuring proposal</p>
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<p><mids> 23:06:16 <@nop> 5) Recruiting for services to aid with IIP</p>
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<p><mids> 23:06:53 <@nop> 6) comments suggestions and people who want to help</p>
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<p><nop> wow, flood in here ;)</p>
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<p><nop> pl</p>
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<p><LeerokLacerta> Out goodbyes?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> lol</p>
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<p><hifi> TROLLS !!!</p>
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<p><nop> Ok, welcome all</p>
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<p><nop> let's settle down now :)</p>
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<p><hifi> .</p>
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<p><Ambience> settled</p>
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<p>--> wilde (~anon@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><hifi> settled</p>
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<p><al-jebr> anyone logging?</p>
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<p>--> thecrypto (~thecrypto@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><hezekiah> I am (sort of).</p>
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<p><luckypunk> mids should be.</p>
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<p>* jrand0m logs at all times</p>
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<p><al-jebr> let's go!</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><hezekiah> nop: Agenda item number 2?</p>
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<p><nop> Our goodbyes</p>
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<p><LeerokLacerta> Bye!</p>
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<p><thecrypto> where is the livelog?</p>
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<p><nop> Ok, mids has come to a point where he is moving to other projects</p>
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<p>--> Phiberoptika (~none@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><mids> After having worked for IIP for more than I year now, I have decided to</p>
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<p> resign as IIP developer.</p>
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<p><LeerokLacerta> Awww.</p>
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<p><mids> It has been fun and an educative experience</p>
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<p><mids> but it is time to move on, refresh the spirit and shuffle the cards.</p>
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<p><Rain> Will you still be online/around?</p>
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<p><mids> I'll keep running Trent as long as needed and possible.</p>
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<p><mids> Yes, I do plan to stay around as user</p>
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<p>--> ntk (~blob@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>* nop is in the corner sobbing</p>
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<p><nop> oh, ah hem</p>
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<p><jrand0m> many thanks mids, iip w/out trent would be a pita</p>
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<p><LeerokLacerta> It's so sad.</p>
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<p><nop> yes</p>
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<p><nop> thank you mids for all your workup</p>
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<p><nop> work</p>
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<p><mids> Although I'll be off on vacation soon :)</p>
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<p><mids> .</p>
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<p>--- mids removes channel operator status from mids</p>
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<p><luckypunk> :D</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Seem's like you've done a great job. :)</p>
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<p><Rain> ..how symbolic..</p>
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<p><nop> we love you mids!!!</p>
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<p><nop> you hear that</p>
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<p><nop> that was my window opening</p>
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<p><thecrypto> we all do!</p>
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<p><nop> fan base out there</p>
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<p>--> w (~w@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>--- nop is now known as we</p>
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<p><luckypunk> lol, yep.</p>
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<p><luckypunk> :D</p>
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<p>* we love you mids</p>
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<p><Rain> Go mids go!</p>
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<p><jrand0m> rofl</p>
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<p>--> leenookx (~leenookx@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>--- LeerokLacerta has changed the topic to: IIP Meeting - logfiles:</p>
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<p> http://wiki.invisiblenet.net/?Meetings - http://www.invisiblenet.net/research/</p>
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<p> | We love you mids!</p>
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<p><Rain> weeeeee are the chaaaampins, my frieeeennnndd...</p>
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<p><Neo> yes mids, thanks for all your input, collaboration and hard work in code</p>
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<p> and doing general developer things for IIP.</p>
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<p>--- we is now known as nop</p>
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<p>* mids bows</p>
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<p>* Ehud stands up and gives a standing ovation to the commitment, perseverence,</p>
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<p> effort, and good hard code that mids has given the project.</p>
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<p><hifi> yeah mids take your toys and go to tigertown lol</p>
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<p><nop> and don't forget the PR and web management</p>
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<p><nop> he's been a vital aspect to IIP</p>
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<p><nop> getting it this far would have been hard without his work</p>
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<p>--> ChZEROHag (hag@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><hifi> hifi bitches with mids over trolling issue</p>
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<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><mids> heh hifi</p>
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<p>--> hezekiah (~hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>--- Trent@anon.iip gives channel operator status to hezekiah</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Back. :)</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Yay.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> (And in case anyone doubted, Hezekiah == Ehud.)</p>
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<p><hifi> i never used frucking trent and don't know what mids did . i only troll .</p>
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<p><nop> obviously your hezekiah@anon.iip gave it away</p>
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<p><-- Ehud has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Ugh</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Item number 3?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> (If we're all done sobbing yet ...)</p>
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<p><hifi> and i never was pingouted in my life . I am the most disciplined user of</p>
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<p> IIP .</p>
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<p><mids> 3)IIP development now</p>
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<p><luckypunk> heh</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Ok everyone! Shhh. Back on track!</p>
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<p><hifi> BUT I CRY that MIDS GO !!!</p>
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<p><hifi> ok</p>
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<p><hifi> .</p>
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<p><luckypunk> IIP development. Whats the current status of that code snapshot</p>
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<p> release?</p>
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<p><luckypunk> That was supposed to happen today?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Well, unless UserX has an objection to the tarball I made,</p>
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<p> it's done.</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Ok. Post it on the wiki?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> UserX? Were there any problems with the tarball?</p>
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<p><UserX> no problems with the tarball</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Yes, but are there any windows compilations?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> OK1</p>
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<p><hezekiah> http://invisiblenet.net/hezekiah</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Get your tarballs there!</p>
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<p><UserX> there hasn't been a windows compilation on the windows version yet</p>
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<p><luckypunk> hm</p>
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<p><LeerokLacerta> "tarballs" sound like some sort of food...</p>
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<p>* luckypunk will try and make one.</p>
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<p>--- hezekiah has changed the topic to: IIP Meeting - logfiles:</p>
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<p> http://wiki.invisiblenet.net/?Meetings - http://www.invisiblenet.net/research/</p>
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<p>- tarballs of the 'unstable' development release are at</p>
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<p> http://invisiblenet.net/hezekiah | We love you mids!</p>
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<p><luckypunk> They are. For GCC.</p>
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<p><luckypunk> lol</p>
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<p><Rain> Sticky food.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> There is one 'documented bug'.</p>
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<p><nop> I can compile a win32 version if you'd like</p>
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<p><Rain> So, could you give a quick describtion of what is new in this release?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> If you run isproxy, and it fails to bind the port, then it will</p>
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<p> /not/ abort. It will just sit there wasting memory.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: That's too much for me to handle (not to mention I don't</p>
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<p> even _know_ all the differences).</p>
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<p><Ambience> this one I assume: iip-1.2-dev1.tar.bz2 01-Jul-2003 01:45</p>
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<p> 292k tar archive ?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> UserX could give a much better description</p>
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<p><hezekiah> UserX?</p>
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<p><nop> hezekiah/UserX can we get a changelog of the differences by chance</p>
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<p><nop> that may be a day before that gets done</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Ambience: Yup! Or the Gziped one. There the same tarball.</p>
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<p><nop> because there are a log of changes</p>
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<p><Rain> Oh, and has the expired IIP signing-key been replaced?</p>
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<p><Ambience> hezekiah: ok</p>
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<p><hezekiah> nop: I joined IIP after the development branch was already in</p>
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<p> progress.</p>
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<p>--> Ehud (~hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: No. I had to use my GPG key.</p>
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<p><nop> no one has tested the compile of this dev branch in win32 have they?</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Hey, is this src is CVS?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: I couldn't contact anyone who had the IIP release key.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> luckypunk: Yes.</p>
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<p>* luckypunk has, but his system didn't work for it.</p>
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<p><Rain> hezekiah: Ok, roger.</p>
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<p><UserX> changes: multi-threading, bignum support via openSSL or GMP, numerous</p>
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<p> inmprovements to the memory management system</p>
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<p><hezekiah> luckypunk: Right now that tarball is a copy of what you get when</p>
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<p> you check out the hezekiah-dev branch from CVS and run 'make dist-bzip2'.</p>
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<p><luckypunk> Gah! I hate windows.</p>
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<p><Rain> UserX: niceties ;)</p>
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<p><hezekiah> And of course there are other internal changes that only the</p>
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<p> developers see. :)</p>
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<p><qriff> just as a question for the qurious... what defines the holder for "Trent"...</p>
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<p><hezekiah> One simple thing is that now that BigNum is implemented using</p>
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<p> either GMP or SSL, login is a LOT faster.</p>
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<p><Rain> May i mention a IIP quirk i noticed earlier today?</p>
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<p>* luckypunk guesses its a yes.</p>
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<p><hifi> at wiki search button is absent . only window to type in but nowhere to</p>
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<p> click lol .</p>
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<p><luckypunk> hit enter.</p>
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<p><qriff> and what about channel/nick expiration...</p>
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<p>--- Ehud is now known as logger</p>
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<p><qriff> registration that is...</p>
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<p><Rain> Ok, it seems to me like you cannot start isproxy from a /path/to/isproxy</p>
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<p> command, but intead have to do a cd /path/to and then do a ./isproxy</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: Let me guess ... you get a configuration screen or a request</p>
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<p> for entropy, right?</p>
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<p>* jrand0m has a feeling this will be a very.long.meeting</p>
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<p><Rain> Is that intentional, or just some quirk of my local system?</p>
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<p><Rain> hezekiah: yes.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: You need to make a .iip subdirectory in your home directory.</p>
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<p><Rain> It claims that the conf-file is not found.</p>
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<p><Rain> with my .conf file?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Rain: If no such directory exists, isproxy will always look for</p>
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<p> the config files in the current directory</p>
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<p>--> AmishOne (amishone@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><Rain> Ahh. Of course.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> OK ...</p>
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<p><hezekiah> nop? Was there anything else for item 3?</p>
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<p><nop> have we tested it for win32</p>
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<p><nop> compile wise</p>
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<p><hezekiah> I haven't.</p>
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<p><nop> UserX: ?</p>
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<p><UserX> no</p>
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<p><nop> I will test it this week then</p>
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<p><hezekiah> luckypunk, tried doing hezekiah-dev recently and complained for</p>
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<p> compile errors.</p>
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<p><nop> that's key to maintain portability</p>
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<p><hezekiah> I suspect there might be problems.</p>
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<p>* luckypunk tried, it balked.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Yup. There are problems.</p>
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<p><Ambience> I'll have to leave for the more dominant one is ordering me to</p>
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<p> and I have no choice here. So I'll be off to bed, but will be logging #iip-dev</p>
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<p> for future reference.</p>
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<p><Ambience> see ya guys!</p>
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<p><lonelynerd> later</p>
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<p><qriff> bye</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Bye, Ambience. :)</p>
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<p><luckypunk> i'll be back.</p>
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<p><Ambience> <--gone (log on)</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><nop> this topic is done</p>
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<p><nop> next on agenda</p>
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<p><nop> what's 4?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> 4) IIP development restructuring proposal</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><nop> we had a meeting about a discussion and proposal brought to us by jrand0m</p>
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<p> for the future development</p>
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<p><nop> and as well</p>
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<p><nop> I have had a lot of privmessages directed at me</p>
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<p><nop> for requests to focus on an arbitrary framework, instead of IRC specific</p>
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<p><nop> aka a framework that supports IRC + a whole lot more</p>
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<p><nop> so the want is obviously there</p>
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<p><nop> and the developers definitely want to go there as well</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Amen!</p>
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<p><nop> the question of how to go about doing it</p>
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<p><nop> and how to make the most productive use of our developers</p>
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<p><nop> is up in the air</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> XML</p>
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<p><mids> is his framework site available to everybody?</p>
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<p><nop> this isn't specifically about language</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> create a communications protocol</p>
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<p><nop> ok, please let me finish</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> I've started on that somewhere...</p>
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<p><nop> then we can comment</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> My apologies</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> I'm a bit in and out at the moment</p>
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<p><nop> ok,</p>
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<p><nop> no prob</p>
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<p><nop> We are at a stage where there is discussion of an arbitrary communications</p>
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<p> protocol</p>
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<p><nop> specifically for anonymous and secure communication</p>
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<p><nop> at this point jrand0m, any chance we can post the logs of #iip-future</p>
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<p> meeting</p>
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<p><jrand0m> sure</p>
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<p><jrand0m> perhaps those zips I sent you so people don't have to struggle</p>
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<p> through freenet for the other pages too</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><nop> hold</p>
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<p><nop> please</p>
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<p><jrand0m> (btw, the logs were unedited, so expect the usual occational banter)</p>
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<p><hezekiah> lol. Yup! You'll get to see exactly how much I DON'T know about</p>
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<p> p2p networks! lol</p>
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<p><jrand0m> heh</p>
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<p><hezekiah> (And they'll probably have my conspiracy theories about nop</p>
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<p> too! So be sure to read the logs! ;-) )</p>
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<p><-- logger has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><hezekiah> Ugh</p>
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<p><nop> ok</p>
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<p><Neo> the logs will be a lot to read. can someone summarizze for the meeting</p>
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<p> what was covered and some key points of all this?</p>
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<p><nop> http://office.invisiblenet.net/iip_future.zip</p>
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<p><nop> and</p>
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<p><hezekiah> At this point, the 'stable' release is being more unstable than</p>
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<p> the 'unstable' one!! Urg.</p>
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<p><nop> http://office.invisiblenet.net/meetingPrepnotes.zip</p>
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<p><nop> http://office.invisiblenet.net/jrand0mnetwork_protocol.txt</p>
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<p><jrand0m> meetingPrepnotes.zip is a small doc that summarizes the meeting,</p>
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<p> and the meeting was basically "ok, any thoughts?".</p>
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<p><-- Delly has quit (EOF From client)</p>
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<p><jrand0m> essentially, the proposal is to get going on a generic secure</p>
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<p> anonymous message based system, and run iip on top of that</p>
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<p><mids> is there a zip with anonCommFramework too?</p>
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<p><nop> I didn't see that</p>
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<p><nop> jrand0m can you zip and send I'll post to site</p>
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<p><jrand0m> sure, h/o</p>
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<p><-- Phiberoptika has quit (* ciaito mua mua *)</p>
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<p><Neo> what is anonCommFramework?</p>
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<p><jrand0m> uber-quick summary of the meeting in iip_future.zip is "ok,</p>
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<p> here's the proposal, any comments?" and comments were basically "ok, can IIP work</p>
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<p> as planned on this?</p>
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<p><jrand0m> if you're on freenet, anonCommFramework is at</p>
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<p> SSK@MQNd5lT-X5wHA4vONvtVadi6q1IPAgM/anonCommFramework/2//</p>
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<p>* jrand0m is sending nop a zip of that momentarily</p>
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<p><Rain> Did you discuss support for PGP-based nyms?</p>
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<p><nop> ah hem, this is early discussions</p>
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<p><-- ChZEROHag has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
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<p><jrand0m> no, endpoints in the framework are not nym based, they're idents</p>
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<p><Rain> Right. So nyms an higher level.</p>
|
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<p><Rain> are</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> (and for lots of reasons, they shouldn't be long term idents</p>
|
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<p> like nyms)</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> yes</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> I was just thinking of something like trent with PGP signarute auth.</p>
|
|
<p><mids> trent is central</p>
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<p><mids> central=bad</p>
|
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<p>--> logger (~hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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|
<p><jrand0m> briefly, anonCommFramework is a meta-network. a generic set</p>
|
|
<p> of protocols & structures that an anonymous communication network could use to</p>
|
|
<p> interoperate to provide militant grade anonymity</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> what's the one sentence explanation of your ideas on network topology?</p>
|
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<p>--> ChZEROHag (~hag@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
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<p><ChZEROHag> that was fun</p>
|
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<p>--> Delly (dedede@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><Rain> mids: Yea. I meant similar services.</p>
|
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<p><lonelynerd> what about having to pay with hashcash to send data? couldn't</p>
|
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<p> that help against flooding?</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> wilde> heterogeneous. no one answer solves all problems.</p>
|
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<p> interoperate, balancing latency, bandwidth, anonymity, and reliability to provide</p>
|
|
<p> the user's needs</p>
|
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<p><Delly> still in 4) ?</p>
|
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<p><hezekiah> Delly: Yup</p>
|
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<p><Delly> thx</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> I think when the ircd is removed from the equation, we'll have</p>
|
|
<p> far better options than (hash|think|real)cash</p>
|
|
<p><nop> jrand0m: any luck sending</p>
|
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<p><nop> ;)</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> uploading to hush now.</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> ChZEROHag> anonCommFramework has built in support for providing</p>
|
|
<p> network use authorization credentials</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> There has been a lot of talk of IIP-Freenet interoparability. Will that</p>
|
|
<p> fit into the framework, or are we talking application-level again?</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> come again?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> app level</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> what we're discussing is splitting iip into two parts - the irc</p>
|
|
<p> part, and the message based secure anonymous network</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> one solution could be:</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> jrand0m: k.</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> Application <-> SOCKS5 Proxy Interface <-> Onion Wrapper <-> Onion Router</p>
|
|
<p> 1 <-> ... <-> Onion Router N <-> Exit Relay <-> Public Server</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> building a DHT on top of the message layer should be fairly easy</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> DHT?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> distributed hash table</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (ala freenet)</p>
|
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<p><nop> ok, jrand0m let me clarify</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> wilde: I think the plan is to design it such that the 'public</p>
|
|
<p> server' could be removed from the equation at some point</p>
|
|
<p><nop> are we talking about splitting irc, or merging to focus on anonymity</p>
|
|
<p> framework</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> well, given unlimited # of developers, splitting and doing both</p>
|
|
<p> (well, 3 things ;) in parallel.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> what I mean is that the irc part is application layer</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> given reality, there's prolly only enough dev time to get the</p>
|
|
<p> comm system running first, then iip on top</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> right exactly</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and since we have a somewhat viable network working with IIP</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> irc is just another app running on it</p>
|
|
<p><nop> then the idea should be</p>
|
|
<p><nop> is to have developers start focusing on framework aspects</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> ChZEROHag: ok, what I suggested is an anonymizing layer for regular</p>
|
|
<p> internet traffic, not a seperate network</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> (This could get fun.)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> wilde there are weaknesses to that</p>
|
|
<p><nop> just to let you know</p>
|
|
<p><nop> aka the clear text on the outer ends</p>
|
|
<p><-- AmishOne has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> nop: yes, so all connections should be encrypted to the ends</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we have an effort as well to have anonymous web browsing possible with</p>
|
|
<p> this network</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> yes. it must be able to operate without ever leaving the mixnet</p>
|
|
<p><nop> but it is not as real time direct as your proposal wilde</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it uses some time delay tactics</p>
|
|
<p><nop> with caching etc</p>
|
|
<p><nop> timing attacks are a serious threat to anonymity</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> I WANT ANONYMISER BASED on IIP !! I DON"t TRUST OTHER ANONYSERS THEY ARE</p>
|
|
<p> FBI TRAPs !!</p>
|
|
<p><mids> http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/anonCommFramework/</p>
|
|
<p><nop> hifi, this isn't changing IIP, this is moving us forward</p>
|
|
<p><nop> thanks mids</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> heh word mids, my moz is hanging</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> although independant mixnets are cool, the real killer apps will probably</p>
|
|
<p> be general ip traffic anonymizers</p>
|
|
<p><nop> wilde, they are myths</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> killer apps?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> no</p>
|
|
<p><-- thetower has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> wilde> that could be a service built on top of the comm layer</p>
|
|
<p><nop> general ip traffic anonymizers</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> or ip traffic anonymizers?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> so far they don't exist</p>
|
|
<p><nop> they exist in papers only</p>
|
|
<p>--> thetower (none@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> if you build an anonymizing service on top of the comm layer,</p>
|
|
<p> however, your outbound routers will get shut down quickly</p>
|
|
<p><thetower> Haha, I just noticed I wasn't port forwarding.</p>
|
|
<p><thetower> Oop, sorry, wrong chan</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> nop: what about the ZKS system?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> is it still around?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and working</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> nope, bad business</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> few people paid</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> but the framework seemed to work, but all nodes were ZKS:s paid relays</p>
|
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<p><nop> wilde but they were internal and it wasn't complete</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it still had certain vulnerabilities</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it was a start</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I met Ian Goldberg at CodeCon 2k2, and he himself admitted it was incomplete</p>
|
|
<p> to what he desired</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> yes, everything has vulnerabilities, we just raise the cost of tracing</p>
|
|
<p> dramatically</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> right, after the mixnet is up and running, i'd like to see wilde</p>
|
|
<p> offer generic outbound proxy services. that'd be cool</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (sincerely)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> jrand0m: but again the ultimate would be using that magic mirror concept</p>
|
|
<p> for optimum protection</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> Probably the hardest option, but wouldn't freenet be a good</p>
|
|
<p> framework to build from?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> wilde, maybe you and I can discuss this in another forum at some point</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> but in any case, the network must be built first</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> Or is that not what we're discussing?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> ChZEROHag> no.</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> freenet doesn't provide hard anonymity</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> aah</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> I should try paying attention</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok, moving forward</p>
|
|
<p><nop> UserX you still here</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> nop: yes, if you have decided on topology there is no need to discuss</p>
|
|
<p> this in public</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> I'm still here</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well it's application layer, so that comes after net design etc</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> where did we leave off at #iip-future meeting</p>
|
|
<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> let's start there</p>
|
|
<p>--- logger is now known as Ehud</p>
|
|
<p>* nop is catching up on the meeting logs</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> [04:31] <jrand0m> I think we're back to your question. can /</p>
|
|
<p> should the irc functionality move forward as its going or move towards this mixnet.</p>
|
|
<p> there are significant benefits to move towards the mixnet, but some aspects of</p>
|
|
<p> the irc side seem to require some redesign to operate on it.</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> [04:31] <jrand0m> the right way for the irc development to go is</p>
|
|
<p> not for me to say</p>
|
|
<p><Ehud> Basically, UserX had some thinking to do about wether IIP could run</p>
|
|
<p> satisfactorily on the mixnet.</p>
|
|
<p><mids> nite all</p>
|
|
<p><-- mids (mids@anon.iip) has left #iip-dev (mids)</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> Would it not be an idea to create a replacement irc in parallel</p>
|
|
<p> with a mixnet?</p>
|
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<p><ChZEROHag> After all it's going to be damn hard to use a normal ircd</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> ChZEROHag> given infinite # devs, yes</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok ChZEROHag silence please :)</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> Assume infinite devs</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> Oh is this not a question bit?</p>
|
|
<p>--> hezekiah (hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><nop> not yet</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> Unfortuantlely I haven't had time to seriously sit down and think about</p>
|
|
<p> how your proposal would fit in with IIP</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> oh</p>
|
|
<p><ChZEROHag> oops</p>
|
|
<p><nop> just want to get into the discussion</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> UserX> think of the mixnet as a socket</p>
|
|
<p><nop> let me suggest something</p>
|
|
<p><nop> do we agree that our goal is not just IRC ?</p>
|
|
<p><lonelynerd> well</p>
|
|
<p><Delly> it's a great idea sure</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> nop: Beyond all doubts, I agree that the goal is an anonymous</p>
|
|
<p> network.</p>
|
|
<p><lonelynerd> doing something traffic-intensive would have the potential to</p>
|
|
<p> ruin the whole project</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> nop: IRC is just a starting point.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok, well what we should look at is this</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> NOT doing something traffic intensive has the potential to get</p>
|
|
<p> us to overlook problems :)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> instead of saying IIP doesn't fit</p>
|
|
<p><nop> or it does fit</p>
|
|
<p><nop> let's look at what modifications need to be made for irc to fit with this</p>
|
|
<p> mixnet, whether it's a mod to the mixnet itself</p>
|
|
<p><lonelynerd> jrand0m: hmm</p>
|
|
<p><nop> for instance</p>
|
|
<p><nop> UserX has a vision of using channels as endpoints</p>
|
|
<p><nop> Jrand0m calls them idents</p>
|
|
<p><nop> are they having subtle differences</p>
|
|
<p><nop> or are they largely different</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> there's substance to those differences.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> can we review that</p>
|
|
<p><nop> on both sides</p>
|
|
<p><nop> from jrand0m and UserX</p>
|
|
<p><-- hezekiah has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> actually</p>
|
|
<p><nop> read the log</p>
|
|
<p><nop> nevermind</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> ;)</p>
|
|
<p>--> hezekiah (hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> the hesitancy I have w/ sending messages to a channel ident and</p>
|
|
<p> having that channel redistribute it to members is that the channel gets plaintext</p>
|
|
<p><nop> how does it get plaintext?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> instead, I'd suggest having a channel contain just the channel info</p>
|
|
<p> (modes, users, topic, etc)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> the channel is just an application running on one (well, 3+)</p>
|
|
<p> routers listening to one (well, 3+) identities. when you /msg a channel, you</p>
|
|
<p> send a message to that identity (application). it then resends it out to the N</p>
|
|
<p> users in the channel, encrypted to each</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I had a proposal for that</p>
|
|
<p><nop> that would have the channel not contain plaintext</p>
|
|
<p><nop> directly</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> at least, without adding a channel key (which would be managed</p>
|
|
<p> by the channel application itself, which defeats the point)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we were having channel keys</p>
|
|
<p><nop> for private channels</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and pub channels are public anyway</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> right. there may be ways around it. y'all know more about irc</p>
|
|
<p> than I do. there are other ways that don't require going this route though</p>
|
|
<p><nop> see the neat thing with message channels is this</p>
|
|
<p><nop> you scale slightly better than trying to find all idents to send to directly</p>
|
|
<p><-- luckypunk has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p>--> dd0c (dd0c@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> I'm not sure you scale better, but you do redistribute the load</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (we can find idents via O(log(n)))</p>
|
|
<p>--> sahara (~sahara@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> but thats neither here nor there, this is application layer</p>
|
|
<p> design ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> right</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> all we need to do, imho, is find some workable ways that *could*</p>
|
|
<p> operate on the comm layer and then leave it to the wayside until we get there</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> jrand0m: messages sent to channels are encrypted with a channel key that</p>
|
|
<p> is different to the channel's identity. a channel server can't decrypt a message</p>
|
|
<p> unless it has come across the key by othermeans</p>
|
|
<p><sahara> did I miss the meeting?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> you've got some ways that could work, it sounds like, right?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> UserX> how does a user joining a channel get the key?</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> sahara: Nope. You're right in the middle of it! :)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it's a key exchange</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> with whom nop?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> brand new user joining #anonymous, and the app containing the</p>
|
|
<p> list of users on #anonymous doesn't have the key (As userx said)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (all I'm saying is there's a way to get all the functionality</p>
|
|
<p> and still avoid having a channel key)</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> jrand0m: with public channels it is derived from the channel name. with</p>
|
|
<p> private channels the user either creates one or a someone gives them the keys to</p>
|
|
<p> the channel</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> 'k, cool</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> so apps managing public channels can read the plaintext (by</p>
|
|
<p> deriving from the channel name)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (which is prolly fine)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> right</p>
|
|
<p><wilde> jrand0m: if the apps encrypt the plaintext to each recepient, will it</p>
|
|
<p> scale well?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> yes wilde, perhaps better (depending on the algorithm used to</p>
|
|
<p> nominate channel managers)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (though it will potentially have a nonserialized delivery)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> ((though i think thats the case with normal irc anyway))</p>
|
|
<p><-- thecrypto has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> but, getting back on to the question -</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> nop, what do we hope to have decided by the end of the discussion</p>
|
|
<p> of #4?</p>
|
|
<p><-- Neo has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p>--> d (~sahara@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well</p>
|
|
<p><-- sahara has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> simple site , problem is i am tech blond but want good things lol</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I was hoping that we could re-organize, but this is gonna be a discussion</p>
|
|
<p> for later</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> sorry OOPS</p>
|
|
<p><nop> UserX</p>
|
|
<p><-- d has quit (Client exiting)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> how long will you need to think about certain aspects, and maybe doc them</p>
|
|
<p> up as a concern list</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> hard to say. maybe a week</p>
|
|
<p><nop> what I'm thinking jrand0m is that a lot of this needs sorting out, rather</p>
|
|
<p> than just plowing into it, or we'll end up at the beginning with nothing to show</p>
|
|
<p><nop> so let's push a week into this</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and see what concerns are coming into play</p>
|
|
<p><nop> because again</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we want an adaptable mixnet</p>
|
|
<p><nop> any application should be able to survive</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> absolutely</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> thats the point of the anon comm framework</p>
|
|
<p><-- wilde has quit ()</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok, so let's put this off a week, and focus on some realistic proposals</p>
|
|
<p> that can fit all of our needs</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> you say "send message M to location L" and it magically, securely,</p>
|
|
<p> anonymously gets delivered</p>
|
|
<p><nop> but magic is one thing</p>
|
|
<p><nop> science is another</p>
|
|
<p><nop> of course you know that :)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> the magic is from the app level's perspective ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> yes</p>
|
|
<p><nop> understood</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> the science is in that 15 page anonCommFramework/2// ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> lol</p>
|
|
<p><nop> UserX, if you can get that in a week that would be helpful</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> I'll aim at revamping the docs & getting comm layer network design</p>
|
|
<p> ready for then so we can hit the ground running</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we haven't agreed on certain aspects</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I think that still should be hashed out</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> what, in the network layer, haven't we agreed on?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> personally I agree that maybe you post your anonCommFramework on iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and have it reviewed and commented</p>
|
|
<p>* jrand0m isn't on iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> So, meeting again next tuesday, same bat-time, same bat-channel?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> what haven't we agreed on is whether it can support all applications</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> jrand0m: Just post to iip-dev@invisiblenet.net .</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> Rain: We are on item #4. There are still other items to go. :)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> its ~800k. if someone could post the URL to mids' mirror that'd</p>
|
|
<p> be cool</p>
|
|
<p><Delly> argh</p>
|
|
<p><Delly> re</p>
|
|
<p><Delly> about services, i think if IIP become more easier and friendly, we will see</p>
|
|
<p> more users and more nodes. it's why i'm making script for mIRC user, one is a Trent</p>
|
|
<p> script, allowing to use Trent and Anonymail with the mouse, the other is a script</p>
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<p> allowing to transfer file over iip, staying anonymous (using uuencoding). The</p>
|
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<p> "protocol" used is easy and could be done for lot's irc clients with scripting</p>
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<p> support. And so everybody could transfer little files, even between di</p>
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<p><jrand0m> nop> I'm 100% certain it can support all applications.</p>
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<p><Rain> hezekiah: Right. My missunderstanding.</p>
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<p><jrand0m> this layer has been used for over a decade in hundreds of industries</p>
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<p><Delly> was my thought of the day</p>
|
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<p><nop> well then where do we not agree</p>
|
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<p><nop> if Irc is an issue, then how is it adaptable?</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> it isn't an issue</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> y'all just don't understand the layer's abstraction ;)</p>
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<p><lonelynerd> Delly: i have a perl script that allows one to use ssh/telnet/etc</p>
|
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<p> over irc</p>
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<p><jrand0m> (really, think of it as a socket)</p>
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<p><Delly> lonelynerd, the goal was just to enhance mirc</p>
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<p><Delly> for iip network</p>
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<p><lonelynerd> Delly: yeah, but if you use base64, i think it's compatible with</p>
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<p> this one</p>
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<p><Delly> could be possible tu use it</p>
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<p><jrand0m> ok, we ready for #5 yet?</p>
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<p><hezekiah> nop?</p>
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<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Client exiting)</p>
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<p><Delly> oups i thought it was 5) !</p>
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<p><ChZEROHag> There's a 5?</p>
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<p>--> hezekiah (hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Client exiting)</p>
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<p>--> hezekiah (hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><nop> sorry</p>
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<p><nop> delly</p>
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<p><nop> you guys</p>
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<p><nop> this is off topic</p>
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<p><nop> please reserve your conversation outside this channel</p>
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<p>--> hezekiah_ (~hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p><-- hezekiah has quit (EOF From client)</p>
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<p><nop> well</p>
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<p><nop> jrand0m</p>
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<p>--- hezekiah_ is now known as hezekiah</p>
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<p><nop> before I agree to go to 5</p>
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<p><nop> the problem I'm seeing is</p>
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<p><nop> UserX has a voice</p>
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<p><nop> as well</p>
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<p>--- Trent@anon.iip gives channel operator status to hezekiah</p>
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<p><jrand0m> of course</p>
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<p><nop> and if he sees logistical problems</p>
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<p><nop> I believe they should be heard</p>
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<p><nop> so you can't just say, hey it's gonna work</p>
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<p><nop> it has to be "solidly" agreed on both ends</p>
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<p><nop> aka he needs convincing</p>
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<p><jrand0m> right, but I'm not going to sit on my thumbs waiting for him</p>
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<p> to doc them up. if he does come up with some problems in a week, fantastic,</p>
|
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<p> and we'll revise accordingly</p>
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<p><nop> or he needs to convine you</p>
|
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<p><nop> but the idea is this</p>
|
|
<p><nop> what I'm trying to propose with this</p>
|
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<p><nop> is to reorganize our dev team to get on your bandwagon</p>
|
|
<p><nop> with that</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it would put our energy in working on the network design</p>
|
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<p><nop> that's the idea</p>
|
|
<p><nop> thus helping all of us get somewhere specific</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I'm not trying to slow down</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> right, i don't expect to have a V1.0 final protocol spec next week.</p>
|
|
<p> last night I downloaded about 50 new articles off citeseer to do some more research</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> so can we post your proposal to iip-dev</p>
|
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<p><nop> and get some review</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> coo'</p>
|
|
<p><nop> also I advise on your own to propose it on cryptography@metzdowd.com</p>
|
|
<p><nop> which will get some serious review</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> sounds good</p>
|
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<p><nop> ok</p>
|
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<p><nop> UserX, you there</p>
|
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<p><UserX> i'm here</p>
|
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<p><nop> ok, so jrand0m will work on protocol spec, and can I assume you'll come</p>
|
|
<p> up with a concerns list or some additives to the protocol?</p>
|
|
<p><UserX> yes</p>
|
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<p><nop> ok, let's resume this in a week</p>
|
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<p><nop> what was 5?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> sorry If I'm being a pain</p>
|
|
<p><nop> just want to organize it</p>
|
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<p><nop> to make sure we're all on same page</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> recruiting for services...?</p>
|
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<p><hezekiah> 5) Recruiting for services to aid with IIP</p>
|
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<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> yes</p>
|
|
<p><nop> since mids departure</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and cohesions return</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we are possibly looking for others to contribute to IIP in some aspect</p>
|
|
<p><nop> this does not mean you have to be a hardcore core developer</p>
|
|
<p><nop> but additives like maybe a web maintainer would be good,</p>
|
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<p><nop> some PR would be good</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> luckypunk volunteered to manage the website.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <luckypunk> I wanna help/take over the IIP website.</p>
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<p><hezekiah> <luckypunk> :D</p>
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<p><nop> and if more people would like to hop on with the upcoming project that</p>
|
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<p> jrand0m is proposing</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> wikked</p>
|
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<p><nop> even if you just want to review the protocol</p>
|
|
<p><nop> that is more than enough help</p>
|
|
<p><nop> the reality is this</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we have a lot of developers with real time jobs</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and it is consuming them at the moment</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and any additional help is wanted</p>
|
|
<p><nop> since this is a huge endeavor</p>
|
|
<p><nop> to take IIP to where it needs to be</p>
|
|
<p><nop> aka InvisibleNet at some point</p>
|
|
<p><nop> real life jobs ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> anyway</p>
|
|
<p><nop> the idea is</p>
|
|
<p><nop> it would be cool if people would love to add to this project in some ways</p>
|
|
<p><nop> using their skills, and I know their are some programmers out there</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and a few that have some spare tiem</p>
|
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<p><nop> time</p>
|
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<p><nop> luckypunk's reliability will have to be reviewed, no offense, I've had</p>
|
|
<p> him offer before with help maintaining a freesite, and no luck there</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> nop: I can understand that one. ;-)</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> nop: He just asked me to forward the offer along because he</p>
|
|
<p> wouldn't be here.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> nop: I did. My part's done. :)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well, either way, anyone who wants to join in</p>
|
|
<p><nop> contact one of us</p>
|
|
<p><nop> either at iip@invisiblenet.net</p>
|
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<p><hezekiah> One of whom?</p>
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<p><nop> or just by nick,</p>
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<p><nop> hezekiah, userx, nop,</p>
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<p><jrand0m> I hear anyone who volutneers to help iip gets free hookers and blow</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> What are 'hookers and blow'?</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> ... or do I not want to know?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> heh</p>
|
|
<p><nop> hezekiah: don't ask</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> OK.</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> I don't want to know. :)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> hezekiah: enjoy your sheltered life ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> while you can</p>
|
|
<p><nop> cuz college is gonna be fun :)</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> I'm enjoying it! I'm enjoying it!</p>
|
|
<p>* jrand0m enjoys the hookers and blow ;)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> jrand0m: quick question</p>
|
|
<p>* w hugs luckypunk and nop</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> si sr?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> jrand0m: are you considering yourself a dev of IIP at some time soon?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> since you are offering a merge ;)</p>
|
|
<p><hifi></p>
|
|
<p> http://www.guerrillanews.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=gnn&Number=182767&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&part=</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> sorry , opps again</p>
|
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<p><jrand0m> nop> a dev of invisiblenet, but I can't contribute to iip</p>
|
|
<p><nop> understood</p>
|
|
<p><nop> IIP == invisiblenet future projects</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> jrand0m: Good working!</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> jrand0m: Wording.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> devs wanted for either</p>
|
|
<p><nop> to make that clear</p>
|
|
<p><nop> specifically cuz jrand0m could use a good team set</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> I could take a look of the Windows code...</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> si sr. once we get rolling into software design, there's going</p>
|
|
<p> to be more truckloads of work than one can imagine</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> word Addic</p>
|
|
<p><nop> awesome</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I will send this request on iip-dev line as well</p>
|
|
<p><nop> anyone interested please don't hesitate to contact</p>
|
|
<p><nop> was there a 6?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I believe so</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> 6) comments suggestions and people who want to help</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> suggestion: < 1.8 hours next time :)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> (not that any of the topics could have been condensed any more</p>
|
|
<p> than they were)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> no comments?</p>
|
|
<p>* nop thinks everyone's asleep</p>
|
|
<p><nop> hehe</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we bored them</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> w3wt</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> heh, who has been working on the Windows' code this far?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> zzzzzz...</p>
|
|
<p><nop> UserX has made it so far portable</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> What kind of talents are we looking for?</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok, let me re-iterate</p>
|
|
<p><nop> Coders, Graphics dudes, Web devs, PR people, Web maintainers</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> Ok, missed that. Sry.</p>
|
|
<p><nop> and if you can write biz plans, that helps me too :)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> you didn't miss</p>
|
|
<p><nop> I didn't go in enough detail</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> heh</p>
|
|
<p><-- Ehud has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> I am Born PR people</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> Step one: Collect Underpants.</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> translating to other languages at wiki?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> yes</p>
|
|
<p><nop> that would be great</p>
|
|
<p><nop> translations</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> ok, i could do that too</p>
|
|
<p><nop> documentation</p>
|
|
<p><nop> etc</p>
|
|
<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> even organization</p>
|
|
<p><nop> anyone who wants to be actively involved in helping InvisibelNet/IIP</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> I invite ppl to use IIP alll the time</p>
|
|
<p><nop> thnx hifi</p>
|
|
<p>--> hezekiah (hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> What kind of org skills?</p>
|
|
<p><nop> well, maybe help run the meetings, or maybe forcing us dev guys to get</p>
|
|
<p> more docs on the protocol</p>
|
|
<p><nop> etc</p>
|
|
<p><nop> possibly organize interviews and some type of press releases</p>
|
|
<p><nop> some ideas for the future of promoting the use of IIP</p>
|
|
<p><nop> etc</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok, please contact one of us if you want to help out</p>
|
|
<p><Rain> Ok, org question, that I have mentioned before: IIP Signing key? (nag, nag)</p>
|
|
<p>--> Ehud (~hezekiah@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> IIP notification service :) for ppl to knoe I /him is online LOL</p>
|
|
<p><qriff> just as a question for the qurious... what defines the holder for "Trent"...</p>
|
|
<p><qriff> and what about channel/nick expiration...</p>
|
|
<p><qriff> registration that is...</p>
|
|
<p><-- ChZEROHag has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> trent is a service, not a nick, so trent must have access to the</p>
|
|
<p> ircd (i think)</p>
|
|
<p><nop> these questions are mids questions for trent, he's an abstract piece</p>
|
|
<p><nop> yes jrand0m</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> iip notification would be cool. how does anonymail do it?</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> can clients send a /notify nick to the server and get a msg when</p>
|
|
<p> the nick joins?</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> IIP SMS notification LOL</p>
|
|
<p><nop> actually</p>
|
|
<p><nop> we did have IIP SMS as the first version of anonymail</p>
|
|
<p><nop> but it tended to flood</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> oh</p>
|
|
<p><nop> so now we do it as anonymail database delivery</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> IIP invitation msg as signature to ordinary e-mails ...</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> Kinda " Do yo Yahoo ? Get MSN free " stuff</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> ooOOoo textAds</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> but does iip need more users?</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> oh</p>
|
|
<p><jrand0m> or is getting more users just a "oh cool, lets service more people"?</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> no</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> dunno</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> i just brainstorm</p>
|
|
<p><-- Mira has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> More people ... more ideas ... more volunteers</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> IIP as world standart will be cool</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> More people ... more problems ... more strain on the network ...</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> ... more floods of #anonymous ...</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> It's a two sided question.</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> more channels lol</p>
|
|
<p>--> Mira (~Mira@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> IIP Eugenics Program LOL Less Population Less Problems</p>
|
|
<p>--> ChZEROHag (~hag@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> hmm... going back to the notification question... is it so the /notify</p>
|
|
<p> nick does not work here? Or am I not understanding the question...</p>
|
|
<p><lonelynerd> Addic: sure it works</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> well what's the problem then?</p>
|
|
<p><hifi> ?</p>
|
|
<p><-- Delly has quit (EOF From client)</p>
|
|
<p><lonelynerd> wasn't much following the conversation, but they talked about</p>
|
|
<p> having a /notify that wouldn't require the client to poll</p>
|
|
<p><Addic> ok</p>
|
|
<p><-- ChZEROHag has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><-- w has quit (Ping timeout)</p>
|
|
<p><-- Rain has quit (I Quit)</p>
|
|
<p>--> w (~w@anon.iip) has joined #iip-dev</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> Hmmm ...</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> I think it's about time we adjurne this meeting.</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> What do you say, nop?</p>
|
|
<p>* jrand0m thinks he fell asleep too</p>
|
|
<p><nop> yeah</p>
|
|
<p><nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p><nop> later</p>
|
|
<p><-- jrand0m (jrandom@anon.iip) has left #iip-dev (jrand0m)</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> Meeting adjurned! :)</p>
|
|
<p><hezekiah> *BAF*!</p>
|
|
<p><-- Addic (anon@anon.iip) has left #iip-dev (Addic)</p>
|
|
<p><-- LeerokLacerta (~leerok@anon.iip) has left #iip-dev (Client Exiting)</p>
|
|
<p><-- hezekiah has quit (Client exiting)</p>
|
|
<p><-- Ehud has quit (Client exiting)</p>
|
|
</div>
|
|
{% endblock %} |