597 lines
32 KiB
HTML
597 lines
32 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 50{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}<p><div class="irclog">--- Log opened Tue Jul 22 15:56:06 2003</p>
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<p>15:56 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Righto!</p>
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<p>15:56 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+o jrand0m] by hezekiah</p>
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<p>15:56 <@cohesion> log enabled</p>
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<p>15:56 <@jrand0m> w00t</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> we need to add cohesion and remove mids on dev list</p>
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<p>15:56 <@hezekiah> Excelent. :)</p>
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<p>15:56 <@hezekiah> What dev list?</p>
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<p>15:56 <@cohesion> nop: i tried CVS and it wouldn't accept my user/pass</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> ok, I'll add you</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> hold</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> what is your sf id</p>
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<p>15:56 <@cohesion> cohesion</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> pmsg me if you need</p>
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<p>15:56 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>15:57 <@cohesion> i think</p>
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<p>15:57 -!- thecrypto [thecrypto@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>15:57 <@hezekiah> BTW, everyone I will be leaving around 22:15.</p>
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<p>15:57 <@hezekiah> UTC</p>
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<p>15:57 <@cohesion> yea</p>
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<p>15:57 <@cohesion> hezekiah: okay</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> cohesion: you're in</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> we need to update website</p>
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<p>15:58 <@cohesion> nop: okay</p>
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<p>15:58 <@cohesion> nop: i'll try it now</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> and we need to start modelling the IIP with an I2P</p>
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<p>15:58 < thecrypto> hey</p>
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<p>15:58 < thecrypto> i made it</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> werd</p>
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<p>15:58 <@nop> ;)</p>
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<p>16:00 <@hezekiah> jrand0m? I just looked at your revision to the</p>
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<p>development schedual.</p>
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<p>16:00 <@jrand0m> si sr?</p>
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<p>16:00 <@hezekiah> The graph with the bars and lines gets chopped off at</p>
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<p>the right hand side; I can't see the rest of it.</p>
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<p>16:01 <@jrand0m> yeah, ganttproject isn't quite perfect, but its better</p>
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<p>than doing it by hand.</p>
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<p>16:01 <@jrand0m> the things at the far right are the last tasks -</p>
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<p>nothing is after them</p>
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<p>16:01 <@hezekiah> But I can</p>
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<p>16:01 <@jrand0m> the tasks there are listed, in order, on the</p>
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<p>index-tasks.html</p>
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<p>16:01 <@hezekiah> can't even see what the tasks are.</p>
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<p>16:02 <@hezekiah> OK. :) I'll just have to settle for text.</p>
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<p>16:02 <@hezekiah> nop: Are we going to start soon? I'm going to have to</p>
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<p>leave at 22:15 UTC, but I'd like to catch as much of the meeting as</p>
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<p>possible.</p>
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<p>16:02 <@jrand0m> let me see if I can make a big task to fix that...</p>
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<p>16:02 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Thanks. :)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> alright</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> agenda</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> 1)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> welcome</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> 2)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> Website future</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> 3)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> bug fixes with 1.1</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> 4)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> I2P</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> 5)</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> Suggestions and comments</p>
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<p>16:03 <@nop> welcome all</p>
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<p>16:04 <@nop> moving to 2</p>
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<p>16:04 <@nop> website</p>
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<p>16:04 <@nop> cohesion, are your maintanance website skills up to par?</p>
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<p>16:04 <@cohesion> aye</p>
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<p>16:04 <@cohesion> XHTML and CSS are my specialties</p>
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<p>16:04 <@nop> ok, we are assuming you can do website stuff, changes etc</p>
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<p>16:04 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>16:04 <@cohesion> yep</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> granted that i can get CVS to cooperate :)</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> easy</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> export CVS_RSH=ssh</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> and don't use pserver</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> use d:ext</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> i'm using gruntspud to CVS interfacing</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> it's part of my text editor</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> it should work</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> we can talk about that later though</p>
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<p>16:05 <@cohesion> i'm trying it now</p>
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<p>16:05 -!- thecrypto [thecrypto@anon.iip] has quit [Ping timeout]</p>
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<p>16:05 <@nop> if you have issues let me know right away if you can, so I</p>
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<p>can assist this because I have a bunch of tasks</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> also</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> we need to look at making an I2P section</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> since it's going to be the next big project</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> I'll talk to ellison to see if he's contribute a bit of his</p>
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<p>web design skills to add to that for a template</p>
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<p>16:06 <@hezekiah> Should I2P be a section of invisiblenet.net or</p>
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<p>invisiblenet.net/iip? (I vote for the former.)</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> and we can get that hashed out</p>
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<p>16:06 <@cohesion> ok</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> former as well</p>
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<p>16:06 <@jrand0m> former</p>
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<p>16:06 <@nop> it would be under projects</p>
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<p>16:07 -!- thecrypto [~thecrypto@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> iip is one project</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> i2p is another</p>
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<p>16:07 <@hezekiah> So, invisiblenet.net/i2p</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:07 <@hezekiah> Right. That's the way I see it too. :)</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> anyone here good at making a logo?</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> volunteers are welcome</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> just submit to iip-dev list</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> ok moving on</p>
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<p>16:07 <@nop> bug fixes in 1.1</p>
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<p>16:07 <@jrand0m> h/o</p>
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<p>16:07 * hezekiah would like to point out that his skills at the GIMP are</p>
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<p>to be avoided like WMD.</p>
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<p>16:08 <@jrand0m> would it be possible to keep the i2p stuff off the web</p>
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<p>until we're ready for beta?</p>
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<p>16:08 <@cohesion> i suggest we use the wiki for collaborating on the i2p</p>
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<p>documents</p>
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<p>16:08 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:08 <@cohesion> i can set up a restricted area</p>
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<p>16:08 <@nop> that's possible</p>
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<p>16:08 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Are you thinking of a big smash announcement</p>
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<p>on /. or something once we have it in good order?</p>
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<p>16:08 <@nop> cohesion: I concur</p>
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<p>16:08 <@jrand0m> yes hezekiah</p>
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<p>16:08 <@jrand0m> word cohesion</p>
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<p>16:09 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>16:09 <@nop> let's look at 1.1 for a sec</p>
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<p>16:09 <@nop> hezekiah you made a discovery, that has not to do with</p>
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<p>focus?</p>
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<p>16:09 <@nop> or what?</p>
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<p>16:10 <@hezekiah> The code is fine.</p>
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<p>16:10 <@hezekiah> The problem is communication, not code.</p>
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<p>16:10 <@hezekiah> The user has to move the mouse aroung _inside_ the</p>
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<p>dialog box.</p>
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<p>16:10 < mihi> the dialog lacks a progress bar to give feedback if the</p>
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<p>user does it correctly</p>
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<p>16:10 <@nop> yes that's true</p>
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<p>16:10 <@hezekiah> He can move the mouse around _outside_ the dialog box</p>
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<p>until he's blue in the face, but it won't gather entropy. (Which is what</p>
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<p>these users are doing.)</p>
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<p>16:10 <@nop> it does lack a dialog box</p>
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<p>16:11 <@hezekiah> A progress bar would be a plus.</p>
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<p>16:11 <@hezekiah> And should be somewhat easy to implement ... if I</p>
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<p>could understand the tangle that UI code in IIP is.</p>
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<p>16:11 <@cohesion> or even some feedback</p>
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<p>16:11 <@hezekiah> Anyway, I posted my suggestions to the mailing list.</p>
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<p>16:12 <@nop> it's in win32 api</p>
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<p>16:12 <@nop> ;)</p>
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<p>16:12 <@hezekiah> Either capture the mouse (I couldn't get M$ to</p>
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<p>cooperate to do that), or make the dialog box message explain to the</p>
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<p>user he needs to move the mouse around _inside_ the dialog box.</p>
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<p>16:12 <@hezekiah> nop: I know.</p>
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<p>16:12 <@nop> fine hezekiah be that way :)</p>
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<p>16:12 <@hezekiah> What?</p>
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<p>16:12 <@hezekiah> What did I do?</p>
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<p>16:12 * hezekiah is confused</p>
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<p>16:12 < thecrypto> how about just maximize the dialog box?</p>
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<p>16:12 <@nop> hezekiah: I'm just messin' with ya</p>
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<p>16:13 <@hezekiah> nop: OK. :)</p>
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<p>16:13 <@hezekiah> Where's UserX? He knows more about the IIP UI code</p>
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<p>than I do.</p>
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<p>16:14 <@hezekiah> thecrypto: As for maximizing, well, the user might not</p>
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<p>like a rabid dialog box consuming his entire screen.</p>
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<p>16:14 <@hezekiah> Mouse capture is ideal, but as I said, I couldn't get</p>
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<p>M$ to do it.</p>
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<p>16:14 <@jrand0m> many other apps don't capture the mouse</p>
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<p>16:14 <@jrand0m> a status bar plus explaination seems typical</p>
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<p>16:15 <@hezekiah> Anyway, that's the 'bug'.</p>
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<p>16:15 <@hezekiah> How do you want it fixed nop?</p>
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<p>16:15 <@nop> well</p>
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<p>16:15 <@nop> I would think if possible we could have a meter that shows</p>
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<p>the entropy gathering for sure</p>
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<p>16:16 <@hezekiah> OK.</p>
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<p>16:16 <@nop> and definitely fixes the language. Have you exhausted the</p>
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<p>research on capturing the mouse movements?</p>
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<p>16:16 <@hezekiah> To the point of my patience.</p>
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<p>16:16 <@hezekiah> Seriously, what I did _should_ work.</p>
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<p>16:16 <@nop> I assume that's a lot?</p>
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<p>16:16 <@hezekiah> Well, I didn't get much sleep last night.</p>
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<p>16:17 <@nop> hmm</p>
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<p>16:17 <@nop> let's try to get a meter bar and the language fixed</p>
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<p>16:17 <@nop> that will give us an idea</p>
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<p>16:17 <@hezekiah> Because it isn't working, I'm assuming the M$ docs are</p>
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<p>lieing to me (very possible) or something 'unknown' is happening in the</p>
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<p>IIP UI code.</p>
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<p>16:17 <@nop> right</p>
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<p>16:17 <@hezekiah> Righto. :)</p>
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<p>16:17 * hezekiah now gets down on his knees and prays that UserX wrote</p>
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<p>UI code for a progress bar.</p>
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<p>16:19 <@nop> haha</p>
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<p>16:19 <@nop> if not go to planet-source-code.com</p>
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<p>16:19 <@nop> there's a lot of samples there</p>
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<p>16:19 <@hezekiah> The win32 API I can manage (though I detest it.)</p>
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<p>16:19 <@nop> I hate it as well</p>
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<p>16:19 <@hezekiah> But UserX/whoever-originally-wrote-this made a wrapper</p>
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<p>around it.</p>
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<p>16:19 <@hezekiah> It's the wrapper I'm worried about.</p>
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<p>16:19 * nop is coding in it right now for work</p>
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<p>16:19 <@hezekiah> I'm looking into it now.</p>
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<p>16:20 <@hezekiah> Let's move on to the next agenda item.</p>
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<p>16:20 -!- jeremiah-gym is now known as jeremiah</p>
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<p>16:20 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>16:20 <@nop> next item is i2p</p>
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<p>16:20 < jeremiah> hi</p>
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<p>16:20 <@nop> hi</p>
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<p>16:20 <@nop> jrand0m you start</p>
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<p>16:20 <@hezekiah> jeremiah: Just in time!</p>
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<p>16:20 < jeremiah> hezekiah: nop and I are oddly time synced, as you'll</p>
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<p>learn</p>
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<p>16:20 <@jrand0m> 'k, has everyone had a chance to check out the roadmap?</p>
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<p>16:21 <@hezekiah> Yeah.</p>
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<p>16:21 <@jrand0m> its obviously draft, and things after the 1.0 milestone</p>
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<p>are largely up in the air, but its something to start from</p>
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<p>16:21 <@jrand0m> I've updated it beyond whats on the list to include</p>
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<p>hezekiah jumping on the C api (w00t!)</p>
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<p>16:22 -!- jeet [~miteymous@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>16:22 <@jrand0m> basically, after this coming friday, we'll have the API</p>
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<p>protocol spec'ed out, which will mean we can parallelize a lot</p>
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<p>16:22 < jeet> hello ;)</p>
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<p>16:22 <@jrand0m> 'lo jeet</p>
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<p>16:23 < jeet> hey if i make a server is it possible to change anon.iip</p>
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<p>to whatever i want</p>
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<p>16:23 <@jrand0m> rough gut question: how insane does the r2 roadmap</p>
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<p>sound? are schedules insane, are there things missing, are things in the</p>
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<p>wrong order or dependencies not represented?</p>
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<p>16:23 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:23 < jeet> kewl</p>
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<p>16:24 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: I would concur the entire thing is insane.</p>
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<p>However, I think (until I get to college) it should be doable.</p>
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<p>16:24 <@jrand0m> heh</p>
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<p>16:24 < jeet> this is a very cool thing you guys have done ;X</p>
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<p>16:24 <@hezekiah> Though I'm not sure nop and UserX can design that IRC</p>
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<p>protocol even in 21 days.</p>
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<p>16:24 <@hezekiah> nop: ;-)</p>
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<p>16:24 <@nop> no</p>
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<p>16:24 <@jrand0m> ok, you're off to uni in late august? mid august? when</p>
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<p>should we pencil you in for less activity?</p>
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<p>16:24 <@hezekiah> Around August 20th I'm of.</p>
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<p>16:24 <@hezekiah> off.</p>
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<p>16:25 <@jrand0m> 'k</p>
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<p>16:25 <@hezekiah> Until then I'm a rabid nermal! :)</p>
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<p>16:25 < jeremiah> I'm off about the same time</p>
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<p>16:25 < jeremiah> (to univ)</p>
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<p>16:26 <@nop> ok</p>
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<p>16:26 <@jrand0m> so we'll have to get more resources on the 'implement</p>
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<p>IRC' task or just drop the task from the 1.0 release</p>
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<p>16:26 <@hezekiah> I wouldn</p>
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<p>16:26 <@hezekiah> wouldn't make the 1.0 release dependant on IRC.</p>
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<p>16:26 <@nop> I believe that we will need to delay the task</p>
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<p>16:26 < jeet> [17:23] -anon.iip- CTCP (except ACTION) and DCC are</p>
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<p>disabled <- how can i stop this from poppiing up every 3 minutes?</p>
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<p>16:26 <@hezekiah> Do the IRC, but let i2p 1.0 come out when it's ready.</p>
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<p>16:27 < thecrypto> wow, i'm half way through college as two others just</p>
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<p>start :)</p>
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<p>16:27 <@jrand0m> lol</p>
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<p>16:28 <@jrand0m> I concur hezekiah</p>
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<p>16:28 <@hezekiah> Cool. I still think i2p will be it's own killer app.</p>
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<p>:)</p>
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<p>16:28 <@jrand0m> so that basically means all I2P 1.0 requires after</p>
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<p>august is a month of debugging and documentation to go from alpha to</p>
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<p>beta to 1.0</p>
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<p>16:29 <@jrand0m> hezekiah> definitely. we need to get a demo app out on</p>
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<p>it first - does the instant messenger app + file transfer sound good to</p>
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<p>people for that?</p>
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<p>16:29 -!- jeet [~miteymous@anon.iip] has quit [ircN 7.27 + 7.0 for mIRC</p>
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<p>(2002/01/10 00.00)]</p>
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<p>16:29 <@hezekiah> Well, you said it best: 'demo'. From my view, it</p>
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<p>doesn't need to be special. It just needs to prove the network is worth</p>
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<p>developing on.</p>
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<p>16:30 <@hezekiah> So the IM client would be a good demo, in my opinion.</p>
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<p>16:30 < Zwolly> file transfer is one thing i really would like to see so</p>
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<p>gimme a demo</p>
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<p>16:30 <@hezekiah> Zwolly: lol</p>
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<p>16:30 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:30 < Zwolly> and see me as an "normal" user</p>
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<p>16:31 <@hezekiah> Zwolly: You can be our guniea pig! ;-)</p>
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<p>16:31 * hezekiah starts mixing poisinous code in his lab. ;-)</p>
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<p>16:31 < Zwolly> hmmm yummie</p>
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<p>16:32 <@jrand0m> ok, one last thing on i2p</p>
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<p>16:32 <@nop> sure</p>
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<p>16:33 <@jrand0m> nop> any chance we can get a non sourceforge trusted</p>
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<p>cvs server?</p>
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<p>16:34 <@jrand0m> sourceforge has more problems than these college</p>
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<p>student's exams</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> I will arrange that and have it up by next week</p>
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<p>16:34 <@jrand0m> awesome. thanks</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> also</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> I may be able to get a compile farm</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> that is not sf</p>
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<p>16:34 <@nop> with vpn access to it</p>
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<p>16:35 <@hezekiah> Compile farm!?</p>
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<p>16:35 <@jrand0m> compile farm? bah, we can just run ant :)</p>
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<p>16:35 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: All code is not Java.</p>
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<p>16:35 <@hezekiah> I personally love compile farms.</p>
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<p>16:35 <@hezekiah> :)</p>
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<p>16:35 <@jrand0m> ant == make. it can run gcc / etc</p>
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<p>16:35 <@nop> hezekiah: send me a list of viable platforms we'll need to</p>
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<p>test on</p>
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<p>16:35 <@jrand0m> 'k, if we really need the cpu power of a compile farm,</p>
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<p>thats great</p>
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<p>16:36 < wilde> what license are you planning to use?</p>
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<p>16:36 <@nop> GPL</p>
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<p>16:36 <@jrand0m> GPL cool with everyone for this?</p>
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<p>16:36 < wilde> k nice</p>
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<p>16:36 <@hezekiah> I'm very pro GPL.</p>
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<p>16:36 <@hezekiah> But one warning</p>
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<p>16:36 <@hezekiah> For the API's we will probably need LGPL. Otherwise</p>
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<p>all programs made for this network MUST be GPL</p>
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<p>16:36 <@jrand0m> we may want to go LGPL down the line</p>
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<p>16:37 <@jrand0m> yeah</p>
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<p>16:37 <@jrand0m> we MUST not require all apps using I2P to be GPL'ed</p>
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<p>16:37 <@hezekiah> So the router should be GPL, but the API's will</p>
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<p>probably need to be LGPL at some time.</p>
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<p>16:37 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Then we'll need an LGPL API.</p>
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<p>16:37 <@hezekiah> The only problem that poses is getting a good crypto</p>
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<p>kit for C that is compatible with LGPL.</p>
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<p>16:38 <@hezekiah> I don't think Cryptlib's Sleepycat license is.</p>
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<p>16:38 <@hezekiah> I could email the author and ask for an exception or</p>
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<p>something if I need to when the time comes.</p>
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<p>16:38 <@jrand0m> hezekiah> not need, want. the API comm layer will be an</p>
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<p>open spec, so anyone can write their own and not link to any of our</p>
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<p>libraries</p>
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<p>16:38 <@hezekiah> Right.</p>
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<p>16:38 <@nop> right</p>
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<p>16:38 <@hezekiah> So for now we can even make GPL API's if we need to.</p>
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<p>16:39 <@hezekiah> OK, one question for jrand0m:</p>
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<p>16:39 < jeremiah> but we should try to have non-viral ones asap</p>
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<p>16:39 <@hezekiah> I agree.</p>
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<p>16:39 < wilde> http://www.virtualunlimited.com/products/beecrypt/</p>
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<p>16:40 < wilde> Bee Crypt is LGPL, i've used once</p>
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<p>16:40 <@hezekiah> wilde: Beecrypt is far beneath what is required</p>
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<p>unfortunately.</p>
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<p>16:40 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:40 <@nop> I don't think we should use a crypto lib like Beecrypt</p>
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<p>16:40 <@jrand0m> word wilde</p>
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<p>16:40 <@cohesion> hezekiah: there's tons of crypto code in</p>
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<p>GnuPrivacyGuard that's all GPL'd</p>
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<p>16:40 <@cohesion> you might check and see where it came from</p>
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<p>16:40 <@hezekiah> cohesion: The problem is we'll need an LGPL C API that</p>
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<p>uses Crypto.</p>
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<p>16:41 <@hezekiah> I'll work it out when I get to it.</p>
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<p>16:41 <@hezekiah> For now, I have two questions for jrand0m: (It's gone</p>
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<p>up one!) :)</p>
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<p>16:41 <@jrand0m> we have lots of options. we'll figure it out</p>
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<p>16:41 <@jrand0m> heh fire away</p>
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<p>16:42 <@hezekiah> 1.) When the client API spec is done on the 25th will</p>
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<p>it detail the byte-by-byte structure of the messages sent over the</p>
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<p>network, and will it detail the specifics on how the crypto is</p>
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<p>implemented?</p>
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<p>16:42 -!- ion [ion@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>16:42 <@jrand0m> yes</p>
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<p>16:42 <@hezekiah> 2.) Will be we using Twofish? ;-)</p>
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<p>16:43 <@jrand0m> no, prolly aes, unless someone has a really good reason</p>
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<p>16:43 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Was that yes to both questions, or just</p>
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<p>question 1?</p>
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<p>16:43 -!- nemesis [nemesis@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>16:43 <@hezekiah> OK.</p>
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<p>16:43 <@jrand0m> hezekiah> yes to both</p>
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<p>16:43 <@nop> well</p>
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<p>16:43 < nemesis> uuuh, since when there are here ops? :)</p>
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<p>16:43 <@hezekiah> I really like twofish, but unfortunately AES is easier</p>
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<p>to find a good lib for.</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> hold</p>
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<p>16:44 <@hezekiah> nemesis: The English structure of that sentence was</p>
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<p>too garbled for me to decipher? Whould you like to restate your</p>
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<p>question?</p>
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<p>16:44 <@jrand0m> whats special about twofish? why not go with the</p>
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<p>advanced encryption Standard?</p>
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<p>16:44 <@hezekiah> nop: Holding ... :)</p>
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<p>16:44 * jrand0m holds</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> I prefer that we have a suite of encryption options</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> not just aes</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> there are opinions about AES that some people do not feel</p>
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<p>comfortable using</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> and would rather go with Twofish etc</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> so maybe we can have it be a selection</p>
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<p>16:44 < wilde> do both :)</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:44 <@nop> wilde: exactly</p>
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<p>16:45 <@jrand0m> nop> suites would mean not everyone can send messages</p>
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<p>to everyone</p>
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<p>16:45 < jeremiah> but then wouldn't each router have to support both?</p>
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<p>that seems painful</p>
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<p>16:45 <@jrand0m> doing both is definitely the case for transport layer,</p>
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<p>where things can be negotiated</p>
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<p>16:45 <@nop> not really</p>
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<p>16:45 <@nop> I would not agree with AES then</p>
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<p>16:45 <@nop> as if you are paranoid</p>
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<p>16:45 <@hezekiah> Right. But let's try to too enclude things that are</p>
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<p>weakening like 3DES.</p>
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<p>16:45 <@hezekiah> A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.</p>
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<p>16:45 <@nop> then you'll realize why</p>
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<p>16:45 <@nop> with the US gov't approvals</p>
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<p>16:46 <@jrand0m> I don't support AES because it has govt approval, I</p>
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<p>support AES because it has cryptographers, scientists, and</p>
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<p>mathematicians approvals.</p>
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<p>16:46 <@jrand0m> if there is a better one, we can go with that.</p>
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<p>16:46 <@jrand0m> but I don't want to go with something because its</p>
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<p>different</p>
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<p>16:46 <@nop> but the approval of twofish is strong as well amongst</p>
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<p>cryptographers</p>
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<p>16:46 <@hezekiah> Well, the last three AES candidates were Rijndael,</p>
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<p>Twofish, and Serpent.</p>
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<p>16:46 <@nop> exactly</p>
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<p>16:47 <@hezekiah> Rijndael was the fastest.</p>
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<p>16:47 <@hezekiah> Personally, I have more faith in Twofish than</p>
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<p>Rijndael.</p>
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<p>16:47 <@jrand0m> nop I think I heard you say there were problems with</p>
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<p>serpent?</p>
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<p>16:47 < wilde> use multiple layers of encryption if you have CPU for it</p>
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<p>16:48 <@jrand0m> wilde> there will be, but thats on a different aspect</p>
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<p>of things.</p>
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<p>16:48 <@nop> all I'm saying is that we could have both supported</p>
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<p>16:48 <@nop> doesn't hurt</p>
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<p>16:48 <@jrand0m> actually it does hurt</p>
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<p>16:48 <@jrand0m> segmentation attack</p>
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<p>16:48 < wilde> ok twofish wrapped in AES could be overkill</p>
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<p>16:48 <@nop> haha</p>
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<p>16:48 <@nop> not twofish wrapped in AES</p>
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<p>16:49 < jeremiah> should we standardize each transport as having one</p>
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<p>specific set of characteristics (network setup, encryption)?</p>
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<p>16:49 <@nop> alright for the sake of argument</p>
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<p>16:49 <@nop> let's do rijndael for this part</p>
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<p>16:49 < jeremiah> and then we could have one TCP transport supporting</p>
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<p>AES, one with Twofish, but not one that has to juggle both?</p>
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<p>16:49 <@jrand0m> jeremiah> yes, particular transports will have</p>
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<p>particular characteristics, but we're covering the end to end message</p>
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<p>crypto done in the api atm</p>
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<p>16:49 <@nop> let's do end to end AES</p>
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<p>16:49 < jeremiah> jrand0m: ah</p>
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<p>16:49 <@nop> then node to node twofish option</p>
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<p>16:50 <@nop> and if you can, do AES-counter mode</p>
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<p>16:50 <@jrand0m> 'k, sounds good. we can always change later on before</p>
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<p>release (during peer review, etc)</p>
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<p>16:50 < wilde> but all crypto algorithms have failed in the past, using</p>
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<p>double encryption would at least buy time in case of a crypto</p>
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<p>breakthrough</p>
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<p>16:50 < jeremiah> not really</p>
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<p>16:50 <@jrand0m> wilde> the truly paranoid can encrypt with their own</p>
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<p>system prior to sending messages over the I2P network</p>
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<p>16:50 <@hezekiah> wilde: If one algorithm is found to be weak, we'll</p>
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<p>replace it.</p>
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<p>16:51 <@jrand0m> I2P will just transparently encrypt</p>
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<p>16:51 < wilde> jrand0m: yes, you're right, there should be a limit to</p>
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<p>paranoia</p>
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<p>16:52 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>16:52 <@nop> we could go on all day</p>
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<p>16:52 <@nop> arguing about it</p>
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<p>16:52 <@nop> AES end to end</p>
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<p>16:52 <@jrand0m> ok, I don't have anything else on I2P stuff</p>
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<p>16:52 <@nop> Twofish and others node to node</p>
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<p>16:52 <@jrand0m> coo'</p>
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<p>16:53 <@jrand0m> any other I2P stuff, or are we on the next agenda item?</p>
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<p>16:54 <@hezekiah> I'm done. :)</p>
|
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<p>16:54 < wilde> what about A2A, anonymous 2 anonymous?</p>
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<p>16:54 <@hezekiah> I</p>
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<p>16:55 <@hezekiah> I've never heard of that. What are you talking about,</p>
|
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<p>wilde?</p>
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<p>16:55 <@jrand0m> I2P is anonymous to anonymous communication</p>
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<p>16:55 <@jrand0m> I2P = "Invisible Internet Project"</p>
|
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<p>16:55 < nemesis> jrand0m: can you send the roadmap as an attechment, and</p>
|
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<p>not as inline?</p>
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<p>16:55 <@jrand0m> (dont make us say I^2P)</p>
|
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<p>16:55 <@nop> hushmail has an encrypted messenger</p>
|
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<p>16:55 <@nop> neat</p>
|
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<p>16:56 <@jrand0m> nemesis> hmm, I tried to - hushmail said it was</p>
|
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<p>attached :/</p>
|
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<p>16:56 <@hezekiah> nemesis: I got it as attached.</p>
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<p>16:56 <@jrand0m> nemesis> you can d/l from</p>
|
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<p>http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.security.invisiblenet.iip.devel/290</p>
|
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<p>16:56 < nemesis> i'm sorry, i can't copy&paste it</p>
|
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<p>16:56 <@hezekiah> nemesis: Perhaps your mail reader is the problem? (He</p>
|
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<p>sent it as a zip file.)</p>
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<p>16:56 < nemesis> its inline</p>
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<p>16:56 < nemesis> theres a zip file...</p>
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<p>16:56 -!- UserX [~User@anon.iip] has joined #iip-dev</p>
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<p>16:57 <@jrand0m> 'lo userx</p>
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<p>16:57 < nemesis> -Hush_boundarfy-31fda3d62329b</p>
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<p>16:57 <@nop> did anyone log this</p>
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<p>16:57 < nemesis> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64</p>
|
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<p>16:57 <@hezekiah> cohesion was supposed to.</p>
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<p>16:57 <@jrand0m> I log all IRC</p>
|
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<p>16:57 <@cohesion> i have it all</p>
|
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<p>16:57 < thecrypto> yes</p>
|
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<p>16:57 <@jrand0m> word</p>
|
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<p>16:58 < Zwolly> my ISP also logs all the IRC chatting so what is new</p>
|
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<p>16:58 <@jrand0m> lol Zwolly</p>
|
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<p>16:58 < Zwolly> hehe</p>
|
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<p>16:59 <@hezekiah> Zwolly: Your ISP won't have logs of this. :)</p>
|
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<p>16:59 < Zwolly> i hope not if so you guys do a louzy job</p>
|
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<p>16:59 <@hezekiah> lol</p>
|
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<p>17:00 <@hezekiah> So, I'm assuming we move on to the next agenda item</p>
|
|
<p>now since we've stopped talking about i2p for a while.</p>
|
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<p>17:00 <@nop> yes</p>
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<p>17:00 <@nop> comments</p>
|
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<p>17:00 <@nop> suggestions</p>
|
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<p>17:01 <@jrand0m> we, should, like, do some drugs, man</p>
|
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<p>17:01 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: Sorry. I refuse to ruin a good mind with such</p>
|
|
<p>substances.</p>
|
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<p>17:01 < wilde> question: isn't the release plan a bit optimistic=</p>
|
|
<p>17:01 < wilde> ?</p>
|
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<p>17:02 <@hezekiah> wilde: lol. Well, my term would be 'insane'. But I</p>
|
|
<p>think it might be feasible.</p>
|
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<p>17:02 <@jrand0m> wilde> good question. it should be plausible, and if</p>
|
|
<p>any devs on there want to adjust tasks they are working on, we will.</p>
|
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<p>17:03 < thecrypto> we can do it!</p>
|
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<p>17:04 <@jrand0m> go TEAM!</p>
|
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<p>17:04 < wilde> aim high that's good, but it should be realistic</p>
|
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<p>17:04 < wilde> do you guys have time enough for the actual programming?</p>
|
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<p>17:04 * jrand0m quit his job to work on this, and a few people have</p>
|
|
<p>summer break coming up</p>
|
|
<p>17:05 < wilde> i mean september-october that's like 60-90 days</p>
|
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<p>17:05 < wilde> ok that's sounds good</p>
|
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<p>17:05 <@jrand0m> but don't believe us. we'll release when its ready.</p>
|
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<p>17:05 <@hezekiah> jrand0m: BTW, since you quit your job, how are you</p>
|
|
<p>going to eat while you code this?</p>
|
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<p>17:05 < jeremiah> wilde: we're going to be implementing lots of it in</p>
|
|
<p>high-level languages and then re-coding in C later</p>
|
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<p>17:05 <@jrand0m> hezekiah> I eat code</p>
|
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<p>17:05 <@hezekiah> I was afraid you'd say something like that.</p>
|
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<p>17:06 <@jrand0m> ;)</p>
|
|
<p>17:06 <@hezekiah> I just hope you've got a good nest egg to live on.</p>
|
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<p>17:06 < jeremiah> jrand0m: my code eats random numbers</p>
|
|
<p>17:06 < jeremiah> that might make a bad loop</p>
|
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<p>17:06 <@hezekiah> ROTFL!</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 < wilde> drinking java, eating python, roasted ant, could go</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 <@jrand0m> but bugs have lots of protien</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 * jrand0m !thwaps self</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 <@jrand0m> ok, do we have other questions / comments /</p>
|
|
<p>suggestions?</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 <@hezekiah> Well, I've got to go now.</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 <@hezekiah> Bye everyone. :)</p>
|
|
<p>17:07 <@jrand0m> or are we actually finishing up in under an hour?</p>
|
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<p>17:07 -!- hezekiah [hezekiah@anon.iip] has quit [Client exiting]</p>
|
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<p>17:07 <@jrand0m> lol wilde</p>
|
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<p>17:08 <@jrand0m> nop> got anything or we done?</p>
|
|
<p>17:10 -!- UserX [~User@anon.iip] has quit [Ping timeout]</p>
|
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<p>17:10 -!- wilde [anon@anon.iip] has quit []</p>
|
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<p>17:10 <@cohesion> ok, i'm ending the meeting</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 < nemesis> STOP!</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@cohesion> nop: i'll get with you about CVS tomarrow</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 * jrand0m stops</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 < nemesis> ganttproject-1.9.7.jar</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@cohesion> GO!</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 < nemesis> how it works?</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@nop> ok</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@nop> also</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@nop> aes</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@jrand0m> nemesis> just double click on it with java 1.4.2</p>
|
|
<p>installed</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@nop> we should use 256 bit as a norm</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 < nemesis> i have java 1.4.2...</p>
|
|
<p>17:11 <@jrand0m> nemesis> I'll email out the xml with the project info</p>
|
|
<p>17:12 <@jrand0m> word nop, definitely</p>
|
|
<p>17:13 < nemesis> Could not find the main class. Program will exit!</p>
|
|
<p>17:13 < nemesis> hm.. i think my java are broken.... Title of the</p>
|
|
<p>Window: Java Virtual Machine Launcher...</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@jrand0m> weird nemesis, works for me... make sure its loading it</p>
|
|
<p>with the 1.4.2 jvm and not the windows jvm</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@jrand0m> ah, try running from the cmd.exe command line</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 < nemesis> eh?</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 < nemesis> k</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 < nemesis> then i write a .bat for it, like for columba :)</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@cohesion> ok, i'm closing the logs</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@jrand0m> (and type java -version first to make sure it uses the</p>
|
|
<p>right one)</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@jrand0m> heh word</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@cohesion> everyone say "cheese"</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 <@jrand0m> queso</p>
|
|
<p>17:14 < thecrypto> cheese</p>
|
|
<p>17:15 < Zwolly> chesse</p>
|
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<p>17:15 < Zwolly> cheese</p>
|
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<p>17:15 < nemesis> E:\Sytemprogramme\server\Projektverwaltung>java</p>
|
|
<p>ganttproject-1.9.7.jar</p>
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<p>17:15 < nemesis> Exception in thread "main"</p>
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<p>java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: ganttproject-1/9/7/ja</p>
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<p>17:15 < nemesis> r</p>
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<p>17:16 <@jrand0m> java -jar ganttproject-1.9.7.jar</p>
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<p>17:16 < nemesis> java version "1.4.2-beta"</p>
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<p>17:16 < nemesis> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build</p>
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<p>1.4.2-beta-b19)</p>
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<p>17:16 < nemesis> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-beta-b19, mixed</p>
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<p>mode)</p>
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<p>17:16 < nemesis> hm... why with -jar?</p>
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<p>17:16 < nemesis> now it works...</p>
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<p>17:17 -!- ion [ion@anon.iip] has quit [Ping timeout]</p>
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<p>17:17 < nemesis> thx jrand0m</p>
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<p>17:17 <@jrand0m> without -jar asks it to load the class</p>
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<p>ganttproject-1/9/7/jar</p>
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<p>17:17 <@jrand0m> np</p>
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<p>17:17 < jeremiah> is cvs working?</p>
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<p>17:17 < jeremiah> i checked out earlier today, but it's weird now</p>
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<p>17:17 <@jrand0m> sourceforge is being a pain atm</p>
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<p>--- Log closed Tue Jul 22 17:18:14 2003</div></p>
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{% endblock %} |