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2009-03-01 05:05:18 +00:00

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{% extends "_layout.html" %}
{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 3{% endblock %}
{% block content %}
<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 3</h3>
<div class="irclog">
Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
<p>
<p>--- Log opened Wed Jun 05 00:38:00 2002
<p>00:38 &lt;+logger&gt; logging started
<p>00:38 &lt;@codeshark&gt; already?
<p>00:38 &lt;+logger&gt; yes, warming up
<p>00:49 * Annemiek is nu afwezig [Slapen/sleeping] [p-uit l-uit]
<p>00:49 -!- Annemiek is now known as keimennA
<p>00:59 &lt;@nop&gt; time
<p>00:59 &lt;@nop&gt; what time is it
<p>00:59 &lt;@codeshark&gt; 22:59 UTC
<p>01:00 &lt; ellison&gt; drumroll.....
<p>01:00 &lt;@codeshark&gt; 23:00 UTC
<p>01:00 &lt; Zwollywood&gt; 1:00
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; Tue Jun 4 23:00:50 UTC 2002
<p>01:01 &lt;@mids&gt; lets start
<p>01:01 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:01 &lt;@nop&gt; Welcome all
<p>01:01 &lt;@nop&gt; to the 3rd meeting
<p>01:01 &lt;@nop&gt; of IIP
<p>01:02 &lt;@nop&gt; Today is probably a shorter meeting
<p>01:02 &lt;@nop&gt; but that's not exactly a bad thing
<p>01:02 &lt;@nop&gt; so anyway
<p>01:02 &lt;@mids&gt; on request of some europeans the meeting is held 1 hour earlier, nop is busy working, so he might be away
<p>01:02 &lt;@nop&gt; let's get started shall we
<p>01:02 &lt;@mids&gt; Previous meeting has logs on http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting2/
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; if it will get crowded, this channel will be moderated, in that case direct your question to those with ops
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; agenda
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 1) Welcome
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 2) Documentation status
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 3) RC2 compatibility
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; 4) IPv6 support for IIP 1.2
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; A) Questions?
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; B) Next meeting
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; welcome
<p>01:03 &lt;@nop&gt; on to 2
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; Thanks to Banks a lot of holes in the docs are filled
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; he added screenshots for windows
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; and found nice quotes that are used in each chapter
<p>01:04 &lt; Banks&gt; np
<p>01:04 &lt;@codeshark&gt; yeah, doc looks cool
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; cohesion reviewed his work on chapter 1 and 2
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; it is in CVS now
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/index.html
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; nop still has to review everything, so it is in no way final
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; pardon the logo, that ASCII art is a placeholder :)
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:06 &lt;@mids&gt; Sina: now everybody is looking at the nice docs: demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/index.html
<p>01:07 &lt; Neo&gt; nice job banks. stuff looks great.
<p>01:07 &lt; Banks&gt; cheers :)
<p>01:07 &lt;@nop&gt; one comment
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; looks great
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; but
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; never mind
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:08 &lt; Banks&gt; If we can get an advance release on RC2 we can package the latest docs with it
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; hehe
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; it's all good
<p>01:08 &lt;@nop&gt; we will, we'll get to rc2 next
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; any other comments on the docs?
<p>01:08 &lt; Banks&gt; You sure there isn't a but? :)
<p>01:08 &lt; cohesion&gt; anyone here have debian?
<p>01:09 * mids
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; there is no /etc/boot.local
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; everything is script based
<p>01:09 &lt; cohesion&gt; sys V
<p>01:09 &lt; cohesion&gt; you mean?
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; so you need to create a startup script and put it in /etc/rcS.d/
<p>01:09 &lt; cohesion&gt; ya
<p>01:09 &lt; cohesion&gt; hum
<p>01:09 &lt; cohesion&gt; *shrugs*
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; oh guys
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; we need to include the random data for windows snapshot
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; might throw them off
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; but we generate a seed there as well
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; is that GUI based?
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; mouse and keyboard strokes
<p>01:10 &lt;@nop&gt; both or either
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; so it is already in cvs?
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; yes sir
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; ok
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; but you have to do a clean install on that
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: can you snap that?
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; cohesion
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; chapter 4
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; installation on Unix systems
<p>01:11 &lt;@nop&gt; is that completed the isproxy -C
<p>01:12 &lt; Banks&gt; mids: I'll try
<p>01:12 &lt;@nop&gt; because it starts up at beginning if you are not upgrading
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: you require a windows compilation then, maybe ask codeshark
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; AndreGoldman: we are at 2) Documentation status
<p>01:12 &lt;@nop&gt; I can compile it for you
<p>01:12 &lt; Banks&gt; nop: Cheers
<p>01:13 &lt;@nop&gt; and send it your ways
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; AndreGoldman: everybody is looking at the documentation demo: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/htmldoc/en/
<p>01:13 &lt; AndreGoldman&gt; Thank, I'll jut follo along.
<p>01:13 &lt;@nop&gt; I'll send it in a bit
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; more comments on docs?
<p>01:13 &lt;@nop&gt; cohesion
<p>01:13 &lt;@nop&gt; need to finish isproxy configuration for unix
<p>01:13 &lt;@nop&gt; on chapt 4
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; I'll look over it later for other stuff
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; but that's a biggy
<p>01:14 &lt; cohesion&gt; hum
<p>01:14 &lt; Zwolly&gt; just let me know where to find original and i will make an dutch translation
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; ahh yes
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; translations
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; Zwolly: will do once reviewed by nop
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; we need to include those
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; in source
<p>01:14 &lt;@nop&gt; this will help people tremendously
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; any germans here?
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; Skyrat is
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; but he's not on right now
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; or other languages except for english, dutch and french
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; also
<p>01:15 &lt; Phiberoptika&gt; do you need spanish?
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; cohesion include the network diagram
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; UnDeRToW told me that he didn't have time for up to date spanish
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; I think we have spanish
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; then yes
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; spanish is good
<p>01:15 &lt; cohesion&gt; what diagram?
<p>01:15 &lt;@nop&gt; the one I sent a while back
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; ascii art of the network architecture
<p>01:16 &lt; cohesion&gt; ok
<p>01:16 &lt; cohesion&gt; i'll find it
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; k
<p>01:16 &lt;@mids&gt; Phiberoptika: cool, we'll find you when needed :)
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; because what's demonstrated is part of the communication protocol
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; not the netwrk arch
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; and we'll label that communication protocol as such
<p>01:16 &lt; Phiberoptika&gt; ok : )
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; and then include net arch
<p>01:16 &lt;@nop&gt; anyway
<p>01:17 &lt;@nop&gt; I've spoken my mind, the rest of that can be worried about offline
<p>01:17 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:17 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>01:17 &lt;@nop&gt; and pertaining to rc2 with docs
<p>01:17 &lt;@nop&gt; I will rewrite the encryption when done, but we'll know why in next part
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; next item?
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; 3) RC2 compatibility
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; decided yesterday
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; we have some more work on rc2
<p>01:18 &lt;@nop&gt; so please
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; use 1.1 rc1 until otherwise notified
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; because they won't work together
<p>01:19 &lt;@mids&gt; wasn't there a function freeze?
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; and the entire infrastructure has to be upgraded
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; but it must be when release of rc2 is out
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; or at least 1 week for pre-testing
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; reason:
<p>01:19 &lt;@codeshark&gt; nop: we need a parallel rc-2 network
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; we will have one cs
<p>01:19 &lt;@codeshark&gt; ok
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; but inform will look the same
<p>01:19 &lt;@nop&gt; and you'll have to restart inform
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; because we're not changing the communication to inform
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; so when we parallel
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; we'll slowly delete out as wel upgrade
<p>01:20 &lt;@codeshark&gt; you mean: flush the relays
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; we upgrade
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; except for a couple
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; which we can discuss later
<p>01:20 &lt;@codeshark&gt; sure
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:20 &lt;@mids&gt; what is changed?
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; reason:
<p>01:20 &lt;@nop&gt; mandatory security upgrade
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; IIP 1.1 as is, is very secure under normal circumstances
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; hackers, etc
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; but
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; against a gov't attack, and ultimate paranoia
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; there can be a few certain types of physical attacks that can be used to obtain the secret server key through coersion
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; because of this risk
<p>01:21 &lt;@nop&gt; well
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; let me explain it in more detail
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; for instance
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; we're all enjoying ourselves on IIP
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; right?
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; right
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; k: we are now on 3) RC2 compatibility
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; right
<p>01:22 &lt; Neo&gt; I am.
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; someone does something stupid and happens to live in a corrupt gov't space
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; (if the network is up)
<p>01:22 &lt;@nop&gt; this gov't is now wiretapping and monitoring their internet connection
<p>01:22 &lt; k&gt; listening.
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; and starts putting up spy nodes around this user
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; then
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; they log this stuff for the amount of time they feel needed to get this guy
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; and suddenly they seek me out
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; and say we're raidnng the server
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; you have no choice but to give us the key
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; legally I'm obligated to do so
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; which is another issue of whether I do or not
<p>01:23 &lt;@nop&gt; say worst situation
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; they shoot me in the head
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; and take the key
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; now with proper analysis
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; they will be able to decrypt the messages involved
<p>01:24 * Neo thinks we would all miss you.
<p>01:24 &lt; AndreGoldman&gt; it is called 'rubber hose cryptography'
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; well
<p>01:24 &lt;@nop&gt; still
<p>01:25 &lt; Aroonkoa&gt; Can the key be kept completely in memory?
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; this is involving IIP as a protocol and rubber hose doesn't work on 2.4 kernels
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; we have provided a solution
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; and are currently in the process of implementing it
<p>01:25 &lt; Banks&gt; can you tell us what it is?
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; this solution is to have a double encrypted protocol for end to end
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; of course, we're open source
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>01:25 &lt;@nop&gt; what happens
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; user A connects through ---&gt; to end node, connects to networkid, authenticates, and then will be doing a separate random key exchange that will disappear after communication is finished
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; this key will not be used again
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; and is after networkid authentication
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; plus enhanced with the Rolling Key Algorithm we use
<p>01:26 &lt;@nop&gt; and the way we Xor every 8 bytes of data
<p>01:27 &lt;@codeshark&gt; well, you could still do a mitm
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; no
<p>01:27 &lt;@codeshark&gt; why not?
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; because
<p>01:27 &lt;@codeshark&gt; if you have the network key
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; it's done after the networkid
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; this is a situation against the log and raid server attack
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; not a live attack
<p>01:27 &lt;@codeshark&gt; ok
<p>01:27 &lt;@mids&gt; will this cause more load on the serverside IIP relay?
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; most likely not after they are connected
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; you might note a spike on exchange
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; but that happens anyway
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; and a little more time connecting
<p>01:27 &lt;@nop&gt; also
<p>01:28 &lt; Banks&gt; the one-time key will be securely wiped after use?
<p>01:28 &lt;@nop&gt; networkid will be changed for safety reasons
<p>01:28 &lt;@nop&gt; and become 2048 bit
<p>01:28 &lt;@nop&gt; and made optionally in the software to support a 4096 bit networkid key
<p>01:28 &lt;@mids&gt; how well does it scale?
<p>01:28 &lt;@nop&gt; yes Banks it will
<p>01:28 &lt;@mids&gt; we had big trouble on the old server, when everybody connected at once
<p>01:28 &lt; Neo&gt; (log and raid server attack == log all cipher traffic, then raid for the key, then replay the traffic and decrypt the data)
<p>01:28 &lt;@nop&gt; correct
<p>01:28 &lt;@mids&gt; thanks nop
<p>01:29 &lt;@mids&gt; s/nop/Neo/
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; the already used ciphers assist quite well for most attacks, the windows are small because of RKA and fake traffic forcing the rolling of keys
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; but if a user is being monitored
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; they are at risk until we decentralize completely
<p>01:29 &lt;@nop&gt; so for this reason
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; we are implementing rc2 as a mandatory security upgrade
<p>01:30 &lt; Banks&gt; cool
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; and will not be compatible with the previous version
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; and
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; one more comment on security
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; we need to make an ettiquette doc on how to think securely and anonymously
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; especially in public channels
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; as well
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; offtopic :)
<p>01:30 &lt;@nop&gt; as just putting iip links to lots of websites
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; it's part of the security of IIP
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; which I believe is rc2
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>01:31 &lt; Banks&gt; heh
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; just linking IIP could lead to bad compromised software
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; even with md5's
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; we need to make sure that the servers that mirror it
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; are secure
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; etc
<p>01:31 &lt;@nop&gt; anyway
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; off topic
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; so we'll discuss that next meeting
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; anywa
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; scalability
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; IIP doesn't scale at all really because of it's centralized (temporary) design
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; but DH key exchange will not affect the scaling
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; we are planning for the future
<p>01:32 &lt;@nop&gt; and bigger prime numbers are essential as we go against faster and faster computers out there
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; well I remember terrible loads when everybody connects at once, right?
<p>01:33 &lt;@nop&gt; not anymore
<p>01:33 &lt;@nop&gt; this was fixed recently
<p>01:33 &lt;@nop&gt; on the back end
<p>01:33 &lt;@nop&gt; I get a spike of 32% now with that issue
<p>01:33 &lt;@nop&gt; not 99%
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; nice
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; why put this mandatory thing in RC2 (which was feature frozen imho) and not in 1.2 ?
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; because it will be waiting too long
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; no offense to the US gov't
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; but they have been issuing laws faster than we code
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; particularly to wiretapping
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; deniability is a key issue here
<p>01:34 &lt; Banks&gt; indeed
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>01:34 &lt;@nop&gt; especially for the server
<p>01:34 &lt;@mids&gt; good point then
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; do we need version numbering in the node.ref? (like freenet has)
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; hence the need to fix some issues and advance in our need for privacy and security
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; it's an ongoing battle
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; but it's worth it
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; well
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; versioning might be an optional feature
<p>01:35 &lt;@nop&gt; sounds like it will turn out important soon
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; so it's in consideration
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; will let you know next week
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; I'm done
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; .
<p>01:36 &lt;@nop&gt; any questions
<p>01:36 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:36 &lt; Neo&gt; Yeah.
<p>01:37 &lt; Neo&gt; The fake traffic option.
<p>01:37 &lt; Neo&gt; Wouldn't it be a good idea to have this turned on by default?
<p>01:37 &lt;@nop&gt; it is
<p>01:37 &lt; Neo&gt; good.
<p>01:37 &lt; Neo&gt; thanks.
<p>01:37 &lt;@nop&gt; it's been on since encryption came out to IIP
<p>01:37 &lt;@mids&gt; fake traffic, what is the length again?
<p>01:37 &lt;@nop&gt; it varies
<p>01:38 &lt;@nop&gt; it's max is 50 bytes
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; between fixed values isnt it?
<p>01:38 &lt;@nop&gt; about the size of simulated chat messages
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; cant you let it vary based on normal chat?
<p>01:38 &lt;@nop&gt; it is as close as we can get at this time
<p>01:38 &lt;@nop&gt; AI comes later
<p>01:38 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>01:38 &lt;@mids&gt; heh
<p>01:39 &lt; Banks&gt; what do you mean mids?
<p>01:39 &lt;@nop&gt; we plan to do that with iip 2
<p>01:39 &lt;@nop&gt; that will have more available techniques
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: well, maybe 50 maximum is too short
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: topic are much longer for example
<p>01:39 &lt; Banks&gt; I see. Is it random text?
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: and that might give away something
<p>01:39 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:39 &lt;@nop&gt; I believe the values can be altered fairly easy
<p>01:39 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>01:40 &lt; Banks&gt; :)
<p>01:40 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; any more questions
<p>01:40 &lt;@mids&gt; feature request for 1.2:
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>01:40 &lt;@nop&gt; feature requests need to be posted on sourceforge
<p>01:40 &lt;@mids&gt; keep record of average and SD of the lenght of lines
<p>01:40 &lt;@mids&gt; yes, I know
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; SD?
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; standard diviation
<p>01:41 &lt;@nop&gt; why?
<p>01:41 &lt;@mids&gt; to be able to fake messages within the used scale
<p>01:41 &lt; Banks&gt; mids: you mean per user or for all users?
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: all users is safest
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; hm, but harder
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; well
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; hm
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; a nice goal
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; would be this
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; iip node takes data traffic
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; analyzes it
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; and scrambles it
<p>01:42 &lt;@nop&gt; and uses it for it's seed of random spurting data
<p>01:43 &lt;@nop&gt; that would give a bit of form of ai
<p>01:43 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>01:43 &lt; Banks&gt; might be better to get the random data from somewhere else. I mean, that's the data we're trying to keep secret :)
<p>01:43 &lt;@nop&gt; what I mean
<p>01:43 &lt;@nop&gt; not direct data
<p>01:43 &lt;@nop&gt; but size of data info
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; and
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; spurt ratio of normal data
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; so that it mimics
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; actual data
<p>01:44 &lt; Banks&gt; I see
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; is randomized using yarrow
<p>01:44 &lt; Banks&gt; Do you guys get notified of bugs added at sourceforge?
<p>01:44 &lt;@nop&gt; I check daily
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; and subscribers are emailed
<p>01:45 &lt; Banks&gt; ok, just wanted to point out that node/relay settings bug if you hadn't seen it
<p>01:45 &lt;@nop&gt; which one
<p>01:45 &lt; Banks&gt; cool
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; the one that you didnt see :)
<p>01:45 &lt; Banks&gt; [ 563246 ] node/relay type settings cancellation
<p>01:46 &lt;@nop&gt; ahh
<p>01:46 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:47 &lt;@mids&gt; Banks: thanks for pointing out
<p>01:47 &lt;@mids&gt; who does the windows code?
<p>01:47 &lt;@nop&gt; that's not really a bug
<p>01:47 &lt; Banks&gt; yeah, but it's not really a feature either :)
<p>01:47 &lt;@nop&gt; right
<p>01:47 &lt;@nop&gt; it warns you about your settings
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; but
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; we'll look into it
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; thnx
<p>01:48 &lt; k&gt; what's the time?
<p>01:48 &lt; Banks&gt; np
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; Tue Jun 4 23:48:37 UTC 2002
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; more item 2 questions?
<p>01:48 &lt;@nop&gt; next on agenda
<p>01:49 &lt; k&gt; what's that in central america?
<p>01:49 &lt;@mids&gt; 4) IPv6 Support for IIP 1.2
<p>01:49 &lt;@mids&gt; http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock
<p>01:49 &lt; k&gt; thnx
<p>01:50 &lt;@mids&gt; IPv6 is something that is going to be used more wide spread
<p>01:50 &lt;@mids&gt; making IIP IPv6 compatible seems usefull
<p>01:51 &lt;@mids&gt; does anybody have experience with making daemons IPv6 compatible?
<p>01:51 &lt;@nop&gt; well
<p>01:51 &lt;@nop&gt; I think it's fairly simple to make it ipv6 compatible
<p>01:51 &lt;@nop&gt; it's really size and input, if your machine is compatible
<p>01:51 &lt;@nop&gt; then it will just do it correctly
<p>01:52 &lt;@codeshark&gt; node.ref parser?
<p>01:53 &lt;@mids&gt; how does it know if it should use the IPv6 or IPv4 address when doing a DNS query?
<p>01:54 &lt;@codeshark&gt; dns returns it
<p>01:54 &lt;@codeshark&gt; either an A record
<p>01:54 &lt;@codeshark&gt; or AAA
<p>01:54 &lt;@mids&gt; dns returs both
<p>01:54 &lt;@mids&gt; (if both exist)
<p>01:54 &lt;@codeshark&gt; hmm, if it has both
<p>01:54 &lt;@mids&gt; s/AAA/AAAA/
<p>01:54 &lt;@UserX&gt; ipv6 nodes would probably be indicated by adding a "transport" field to noderef with a value "tcp6" or similar
<p>01:54 &lt;@codeshark&gt; right :)
<p>01:55 &lt; Aroonkoa&gt; Nodes could be both ipv4 and ipv6, correct?
<p>01:55 &lt;@UserX&gt; .
<p>01:55 &lt;@UserX&gt; yes
<p>01:56 &lt;@mids&gt; would be nice, that way you can make them gateways
<p>01:56 &lt;@codeshark&gt; if nodes can be on ipv6, i need to connect to the ipv6 network with the nodechecker
<p>01:56 &lt;@codeshark&gt; .
<p>01:56 &lt;@nop&gt; right
<p>01:57 &lt;@nop&gt; remember this is iip 1.2
<p>01:57 &lt;@nop&gt; so hopefully we'll be prepared for then
<p>01:57 &lt;@nop&gt; .
<p>01:57 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>01:58 &lt; k&gt; me?
<p>01:58 &lt; k&gt; j/k
<p>01:58 &lt;@mids&gt; more IPv6?
<p>01:58 &lt;@nop&gt; mids
<p>01:58 &lt;@nop&gt; it won't be too hard
<p>01:58 &lt;@nop&gt; I think that's it for ipv6
<p>01:59 &lt;@mids&gt; UserX's idea is great, that should solve all problems
<p>01:59 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; yes
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; .
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; he always has great ideas
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; .
<p>01:59 &lt;@mids&gt; A) Questions
<p>01:59 &lt;@mids&gt; -------------
<p>01:59 &lt;@mids&gt; Ask a question
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; How does everyone like IIP so far
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; ?
<p>01:59 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>02:00 &lt; Banks&gt; It's elite
<p>02:00 &lt; Zwolly&gt; great and impressed
<p>02:00 &lt;@mids&gt; I like it pure
<p>02:00 &lt;@nop&gt; hehe
<p>02:00 &lt; Neo&gt; Schweeet.
<p>02:00 &lt; Aroonkoa&gt; Love it.
<p>02:00 &lt;@nop&gt; awesome
<p>02:00 &lt; Zwolly&gt; just looking fot this my whole internet irc life
<p>02:00 &lt; Zwolly&gt; for
<p>02:00 &lt; Neo&gt; We love it for what it is, and even more so for what it plans to be.
<p>02:01 &lt;@nop&gt; neato
<p>02:01 &lt; Phiberoptika&gt; bravo!: ))))
<p>02:01 &lt; Banks&gt; It's not just a pipe dream. It's here, now. With promise for the future.
<p>02:01 * Banks reaches for tissues.
<p>02:01 &lt;@nop&gt; umm
<p>02:01 &lt;@nop&gt; that was the idea
<p>02:02 * Banks offers the box around.
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; haha
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; oh
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; banks
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; great job on iip logo design
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; one comment
<p>02:02 &lt;@mids&gt; what logo?
<p>02:02 &lt; Banks&gt; shoot
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; use it for docs if we can
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; t-shirts
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; and bumper stickers
<p>02:02 &lt;@nop&gt; but website probably will be more light
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; it's very cynical ;)
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; and as a group
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; we like it
<p>02:03 &lt;@mids&gt; ah, banks did the logo, forgot
<p>02:03 &lt; Zwolly&gt; t-shirts... there goes your anonimous life
<p>02:03 &lt; Neo&gt; bumper stickers... lol
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; just saying
<p>02:03 &lt;@mids&gt; did everybody see it? I will put it on my site
<p>02:03 &lt; Banks&gt; :)
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; defintely on the docs though
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; THat is the epitome of the docs
<p>02:03 &lt;@nop&gt; and the software
<p>02:04 &lt;@mids&gt; http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/meeting3/IIPlogo_bigger.png
<p>02:04 &lt;@mids&gt; somebody who isnt here at the moment had a comment on the logo
<p>02:05 &lt;@mids&gt; (s)he didn't quite like how the P worked out
<p>02:05 &lt; Banks&gt; We can change IIP to stand for Invisible Internet Project if you like, which represents your long-term goals as I understand it.
<p>02:05 &lt;@mids&gt; (but liked the whole concept)
<p>02:05 &lt; Banks&gt; if we can think of a way to improve the P, we should.
<p>02:06 &lt;@mids&gt; maybe a normal P?
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; maybe make both
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; irc and internet
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; internet is a ways off
<p>02:06 &lt; k&gt; just don't p on the floor, k?
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; we have a joker in here
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; hehe
<p>02:06 &lt;@nop&gt; ;)
<p>02:06 &lt; Banks&gt; :)
<p>02:06 &lt;@mids&gt; well, there is an idea
<p>02:07 &lt;@mids&gt; if you put the P a bit higher, it looks maybe better
<p>02:07 &lt;@mids&gt; though I like the concept!
<p>02:07 &lt; Banks&gt; mids: you can make those changes and send them around for comment if you want, or I can do it.
<p>02:07 &lt;@mids&gt; I am not a gfx guy
<p>02:08 &lt; Banks&gt; neither am I really :)
<p>02:08 &lt;@mids&gt; :)
<p>02:08 &lt; Banks&gt; I'll do a normal P and move it up and send it around
<p>02:08 &lt; k&gt; what's the time in costa rica??
<p>02:11 &lt;@mids&gt; okay, I have a little idea
<p>02:11 &lt;@mids&gt; everybody may promote his channel here now, with a oneliner
<p>02:11 &lt;@mids&gt; include channelname + description
<p>02:12 &lt;@mids&gt; #anonymous - general network channel, meet celibrities & crackheads
<p>02:12 &lt; Zwolly&gt; channel Annemiek just for the fun and in dutch (or english)
<p>02:12 * keimennA is afwezig [Slapen/sleeping] [1h22m52s]
<p>02:13 &lt; k&gt; glad I got to know that..
<p>02:13 &lt; Banks&gt; #scientology is a classic example of the kind of channels which IIP is ideally suited to
<p>02:13 &lt; Banks&gt; (it's not mine though :) )
<p>02:13 &lt; k&gt; lol
<p>02:14 &lt; Neo&gt; #distributedcity - Sovereign Individuals
<p>02:14 &lt;@mids&gt; #test - for all your testing
<p>02:15 &lt;@nop&gt; #vegetarian for vegetarian (joke)
<p>02:15 &lt; Banks&gt; #hacktivismo isn't up today
<p>02:15 &lt; Banks&gt; Heh
<p>02:16 &lt;@mids&gt; okay, any questions? (IIP related)
<p>02:18 &lt; Banks&gt; Any way to improve fserve speed in the short-term? We could get a bigger user-base then.
<p>02:18 &lt;@nop&gt; umm
<p>02:18 &lt;@nop&gt; not without having flooding problems
<p>02:18 &lt;@codeshark&gt; filesharing in iip is not a very good idea
<p>02:19 &lt;@codeshark&gt; it's very inefficient
<p>02:19 &lt;@nop&gt; wait till decentralized
<p>02:19 &lt;@codeshark&gt; because of base64 encoding and additional irc headers
<p>02:19 &lt;@codeshark&gt; ...
<p>02:19 &lt;@nop&gt; then we'll make sure it's possible
<p>02:19 &lt; Banks&gt; I think it's a priority for a lot of people though. I was just wondering if there was any way to improve it somewhat before decentralization. Ok.
<p>02:20 &lt;@nop&gt; freenet gets it's act together
<p>02:20 &lt;@nop&gt; and you can write an irc plugin
<p>02:20 &lt;@nop&gt; :)
<p>02:20 &lt;@codeshark&gt; yeah, integration with freenet or somthing like it would be great
<p>02:20 &lt;@mids&gt; help freenet testing by running a watchme node
<p>02:20 &lt;@codeshark&gt; watchme node?
<p>02:20 &lt;@mids&gt; if they get that thing working again, freenet will be very usefull
<p>02:21 &lt;@mids&gt; http://freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/Main/SpyWare
<p>02:21 &lt;@codeshark&gt; statistics node?
<p>02:21 &lt; Banks&gt; true
<p>02:21 &lt;@mids&gt; it is a 'spyware' node, intended for debugging
<p>02:24 &lt; k&gt; woo
<p>02:25 &lt;@mids&gt; yes k? do you have a question?
<p>02:25 &lt;@mids&gt; (no sorry, dont know the costa rica timezone)
<p>02:26 &lt; k&gt; sorry - just celebrating out loud.
<p>02:27 &lt;@mids&gt; question: how does the 'new' time suit you?
<p>02:27 &lt; k&gt; huh?
<p>02:28 &lt;@codeshark&gt; it's a bit better, but we need to make the meetings shorter
<p>02:28 &lt;@codeshark&gt; .
<p>02:28 &lt; Banks&gt; I won't be able to make it to the next meeting. I have unavoidable business all day.
<p>02:28 &lt;@nop&gt; ok
<p>02:28 &lt;@nop&gt; it's all good
<p>02:28 &lt;@mids&gt; codeshark: any idea how to make it shorter?
<p>02:29 &lt;@codeshark&gt; make it more efficient
<p>02:29 &lt;@codeshark&gt; someone has to lead each topic
<p>02:30 &lt;@codeshark&gt; .
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; k
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; I am going to sleep
<p>02:30 &lt;@mids&gt; thanks all
<p>02:30 &lt;@codeshark&gt; me too
<p>02:31 &lt;@mids&gt; nop: can you moderate the channel again when the discussion is over?
<p>02:31 &lt;@nop&gt; sure
<p>02:31 &lt;@mids&gt; logger will be kept running for a while
<p>02:31 &lt;@codeshark&gt; nop: anything left for discussion&gt;
<p>02:31 &lt;@codeshark&gt; ?
<p>02:32 &lt;@nop&gt; not really
<p>02:32 &lt;@nop&gt; no
<p>02:32 &lt;@nop&gt; everyone go home
<p>02:32 &lt;@nop&gt; haha
<p>02:32 &lt; Zwolly&gt; thanx dad
<p>02:32 &lt;@nop&gt; your welcome son
<p>02:32 &lt; Zwolly&gt; hehe
<p>02:33 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+m] by nop
<p>02:33 &lt;@nop&gt; everybody out
<p>02:33 &lt;@nop&gt; I need my time alone
<p>02:33 &lt;@nop&gt; leave me be
<p>02:33 * codeshark kicks out everyone
<p>02:34 -!- Phiberoptika was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- Neo was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- keimennA was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- keimennA was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- mode/#iip-dev [+i] by codeshark
<p>02:34 -!- keimennA was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- k was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- jakob[oFF] was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:34 -!- AndreGoldman was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
<p>02:34 -!- Banks was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
<p>02:34 -!- ion was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:35 -!- ellison was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:35 -!- Aroonkoa was kicked from #iip-dev by codeshark [codeshark]
<p>02:35 -!- cohesion was kicked from #iip-dev by nop [nop]
<p>02:35 &lt;@codeshark&gt; hehe
<p>02:35 &lt;+logger&gt; abusive
<p>02:35 &lt;+logger&gt; logging ended
<p>--- Log closed Wed Jun 05 02:35:32 2002
</div>
{% endblock %}