341 lines
23 KiB
HTML
341 lines
23 KiB
HTML
{% extends "_layout.html" %}
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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 92{% endblock %}
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{% block content %}<div class="irclog">
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<p>[22:59] <duck> Tue Jun 1 21:00:00 UTC 2004</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> hi folks!</p>
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<p>[23:00] <mihi> hi duck</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-June/000250.html</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> my proposal:</p>
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<p>[23:00] * Masterboy has joined #i2p</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> 1) code progress</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> 2) featured content</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> 3) testnet status</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> 4) bounties</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> 5) ???</p>
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<p>[23:00] <Masterboy> hi:)</p>
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<p>[23:00] <duck> .</p>
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<p>[23:01] <duck> since jrandom is off we'll have to do it ourself</p>
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<p>[23:01] <duck> (I know that he is logging and verifying our independency)</p>
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<p>[23:01] <Masterboy> no problem:P</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> unless there are problems with the agenda I propose that we stick to it</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> though there aint much that I can do if you dont :)</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> .</p>
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<p>[23:02] <mihi> ;)</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> 1) code progress</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> not much code submitted to cvs</p>
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<p>[23:02] <duck> I did win the trophy this week: http://duck.i2p/duck_trophy.jpg</p>
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<p>[23:03] * hypercubus has no cvs account yet</p>
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<p>[23:03] <Masterboy> and who did submit something?</p>
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<p>[23:03] <duck> anybody doing any secret coding?</p>
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<p>[23:03] * Nightblade has joined #I2P</p>
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<p>[23:03] <hypercubus> BrianR was working on some stuff</p>
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<p>[23:04] <hypercubus> i've got maybe 20% of the 0.4 installer hacked out</p>
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<p>[23:04] <duck> hypercubus: if you have stuff then provide diffs and $dev will commit for you</p>
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<p>[23:04] <duck> ofcourse the strict license agreements apply</p>
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<p>[23:05] <duck> hypercubus: cool, any issues / things worth mentioning?</p>
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<p>[23:06] <hypercubus> not yet, but i'll probably need a couple of BSD people to test the preinstaller shell scripts</p>
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<p>[23:06] * duck turns some stones</p>
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<p>[23:06] <Nightblade> is it text-only</p>
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<p>[23:07] <mihi> duck: which one is you on duck_trophy.jpg?</p>
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<p>[23:07] <mihi> ;)</p>
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<p>[23:07] <Nightblade> luckypunk has freebsd, also my isp has freebsd but their config is kind of screwed up</p>
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<p>[23:07] <Nightblade> my web host isp that is, not comcast</p>
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<p>[23:08] <duck> mihi: left one with the glasses. wilde is the right guy handing me the trophy</p>
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<p>[23:08] * wilde waves</p>
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<p>[23:08] <hypercubus> you have a choice... if you have java installed, you can skip the preinstaller altogether... </p>
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<p> if you don't have java installed you can run the linux binary or win32 binary preinstaller (console mode), or a </p>
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<p> generic *nix script preinstaller (console mode)</p>
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<p>[23:08] <hypercubus> the main installer gives you the choice of using console mode or spiffy GUI mode</p>
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<p>[23:08] <Masterboy> i will install freebsd soon so in the future i will give a try to the installer too</p>
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<p>[23:09] <hypercubus> ok good... didn't know if anyone else besides jrandom was using it</p>
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<p>[23:09] <Nightblade> freebsd java is invoked as "javavm" rather than "java"</p>
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<p>[23:09] <hypercubus> as built from sun sources?</p>
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<p>[23:09] <mihi> freebsd supports symlinks ;)</p>
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<p>[23:10] <hypercubus> anyhow the binary preinstaller is 100% complete</p>
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<p>[23:10] <hypercubus> compiles with gcj to native</p>
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<p>[23:11] <hypercubus> it just asks you for the install dir, and it grabs a JRE for you</p>
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<p>[23:11] <duck> w00t</p>
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<p>[23:11] <Nightblade> cool</p>
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<p>[23:11] <hypercubus> jrandom's packaging a custom JRE for i2p</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <j> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <Nightblade> if you install java from the freebsd ports collection you use some wrapper script called </p>
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<p> javavm</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <r> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <hypercubus> anyhow this puppy will be almost completely automated</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <r> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <r> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <r> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <duck> r: cut it</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <r> .</p>
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<p>[23:12] <deer> <m> .</p>
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<p>[23:13] <deer> <m> stoopid irc server, does not support pipelining :(</p>
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<p>[23:13] <duck> hypercubus: got any ETA for us?</p>
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<p>[23:14] <deer> <m> oops, the problem is "Nick change too fast" :(</p>
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<p>[23:14] <hypercubus> i still expect to be finished in under a month, before 0.4 is ripe for release</p>
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<p>[23:14] <hypercubus> though at present i'm compiling a new OS for my dev system, so it'll be a couple of days </p>
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<p> before i get back to the installer ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:14] <hypercubus> no worries though</p>
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<p>[23:15] <duck> ok. so more news next week :)</p>
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<p>[23:15] <duck> any other coding done?</p>
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<p>[23:15] <hypercubus> hopefully... unless the power company screws me again</p>
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<p>[23:16] * duck moves to #2</p>
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<p>[23:16] <duck> * 2) featured content</p>
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<p>[23:16] <duck> lots of streaming audio (ogg/vorbis) done this week</p>
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<p>[23:16] <duck> baffled is running his egoplay stream and I am running a stream too</p>
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<p>[23:16] <Masterboy> and it works quite good</p>
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<p>[23:17] <duck> on our site you can get info how to use it</p>
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<p>[23:17] <hypercubus> got any rough stats for us?</p>
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<p>[23:17] <duck> if you use a player not listed there and figure out how to use it, please send them to me and I'll </p>
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<p> add</p>
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<p>[23:17] <Masterboy> duck where is the link to baffleds stream on your site?</p>
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<p>[23:17] <Masterboy> :P</p>
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<p>[23:17] <duck> hypercubus: 4kB/s goes pretty well</p>
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<p>[23:18] <duck> and with ogg it aint tooooo bad</p>
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<p>[23:18] <hypercubus> but that still seems to be the avg. speed?</p>
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<p>[23:18] <duck> my observation is that is the max</p>
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<p>[23:18] <duck> but it is all config tweaking</p>
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<p>[23:19] <hypercubus> any idea why that seems to be the max?</p>
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<p>[23:19] <hypercubus> and i'm not just talking streaming here</p>
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<p>[23:19] <hypercubus> but downloads too</p>
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<p>[23:20] <Nightblade> i was downloading some big files yesterday (a couple megabytes) off of duck's hosting </p>
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<p> service and i was getting about 4kb-5kb as well</p>
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<p>[23:20] <duck> I think that it is the rtt</p>
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<p>[23:20] <Nightblade> those Chips movies</p>
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<p>[23:20] <hypercubus> 4-5 seems an improvement over the ~3 that i've gotten consistently since i started using i2p</p>
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<p>[23:20] <Masterboy> 4-5kb is not bad..</p>
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<p>[23:20] <duck> with a windowsize of 1 you dont get much faster..</p>
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<p>[23:20] <duck> windowsize >1 bounty: http://www.i2p.net/node/view/224</p>
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<p>[23:21] <duck> mihi: maybe you can comment?</p>
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<p>[23:21] <hypercubus> but it is a remarkably consistent 3 kbps</p>
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<p>[23:21] <mihi> on what? windowsize>1 with ministreaming: you are a wizard if you manage that ;)</p>
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<p>[23:21] <hypercubus> no hiccups on the bandwidth meter... a fairly smooth line</p>
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<p>[23:21] <duck> mihi: on why it is so stable at 4kb/s</p>
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<p>[23:21] <mihi> no idea. i don't hear any sound :(</p>
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<p>[23:22] <duck> mihi: for all i2ptunnel transfers</p>
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<p>[23:22] <Masterboy> mihi you need to config the ogg streaming plugin..</p>
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<p>[23:22] <mihi> Masterboy:?</p>
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<p>[23:23] <mihi> no, there is no limit inside i2ptunnel regarding speed. it must be in the router...</p>
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<p>[23:23] <duck> my thinking: max packet size: 32kB, 5 second rtt: 32kB/5s =~ 6.5kb/s</p>
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<p>[23:24] <hypercubus> sounds plausible</p>
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<p>[23:25] <duck> ok..</p>
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<p>[23:25] <duck> other content:</p>
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<p>[23:25] * hirvox has joined #i2p</p>
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<p>[23:25] <duck> there is a new eepsite from Naughtious</p>
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<p>[23:25] <duck> anonynanny.i2p</p>
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<p>[23:25] <duck> key is commited to cvs and he did put it on ugha's wiki</p>
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<p>[23:25] * mihi is hearing "sitting in the ..." - duck++</p>
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<p>[23:25] <Nightblade> see if you can open two or three streams at a 4kb speed then you will be able to tell if it </p>
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<p> is in the router or the streaming lib</p>
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<p>[23:26] <duck> Naughtious: you there? tell something about your plan :)</p>
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<p>[23:26] <Masterboy> i have read that he provides hosting</p>
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<p>[23:26] <duck> Nightblade: I did try 3 parallel downloads from baffled and I got 3-4kB each</p>
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<p>[23:26] <Nightblade> i c</p>
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<p>[23:27] <mihi> Nightblade: how can you tell that then?</p>
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<p>[23:27] * mihi likes listening in "stop&go" mode ;)</p>
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<p>[23:27] <Nightblade> well if there is some kind of limitation in the router that only lets it handle 4kb at once</p>
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<p>[23:27] <Nightblade> or if it is something else</p>
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<p>[23:28] <hypercubus> can someone explain this anonynanny site? i don't have a running i2p router atm</p>
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<p>[23:28] <mihi> hypercubus: just a wiki or some sort of it</p>
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<p>[23:28] <duck> plone CMS setup, open account creation</p>
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<p>[23:28] <duck> allows file upload and website stuff</p>
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<p>[23:28] <duck> through web interface</p>
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<p>[23:28] <Nightblade> another thing to do would be to test the throughput of the "repliable datagram" which afaik </p>
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<p> is the same as the streams but without acks</p>
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<p>[23:28] <duck> likely a lot like drupal</p>
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<p>[23:28] <hypercubus> yeah i've run plone before</p>
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<p>[23:29] <duck> Nightblade: I have been thinking about using airhook to manage those</p>
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<p>[23:29] <duck> but so far only some basic thought</p>
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<p>[23:29] <hypercubus> anything goes for the wiki content, or does it center on something in particular?</p>
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<p>[23:29] <Nightblade> i think airhook is GPLed</p>
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<p>[23:29] <duck> the protocol</p>
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<p>[23:29] <duck> not the code</p>
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<p>[23:29] <Nightblade> ah :)</p>
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<p>[23:30] <duck> hypercubus: he wants quality content, and lets you provide that :)</p>
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<p>[23:30] <Masterboy> upload the best pr0n of yourself you have got hyper;P</p>
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<p>[23:30] <duck> ok</p>
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<p>[23:30] * Masterboy will try to do that too</p>
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<p>[23:30] <hypercubus> yeah, anyone running an open wiki is just asking for quality content ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:31] <duck> ok</p>
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<p>[23:31] * duck moves to #3</p>
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<p>[23:31] <duck> * 3) testnet status</p>
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<p>[23:31] <Nightblade> Airhook gracefully handles intermittent, unreliable, or delayed networks <-- hehe not an </p>
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<p> optimistic description of I2P!</p>
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<p>[23:31] <duck> how has it been going?</p>
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<p>[23:32] <duck> lets put the datagram over i2p discussion to the end</p>
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<p>[23:32] <tessier> I love to run around to open wiki's and link to this: http://www.fissure.org/humour/pics/squirre</p>
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<p> l.jpg</p>
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<p>[23:32] <tessier> airhook rocks</p>
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<p>[23:32] <tessier> I've been looking at it for building a p2p network also.</p>
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<p>[23:32] <Nightblade> it seems to be reliable to me (#3)</p>
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<p>[23:32] <Nightblade> best i've seen so far</p>
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<p>[23:33] <duck> yeah</p>
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<p>[23:33] <mihi> works well - at least for stop&go audio streaming</p>
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<p>[23:33] <duck> I see quite impressive uptimes on irc</p>
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<p>[23:33] <hypercubus> agreed... seeing lots more blue guys in my router console</p>
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<p>[23:33] <Nightblade> mihi: are you listening to techno ? :)</p>
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<p>[23:33] <duck> but hard to tell since bogobot doesnt seem to handle connections that go over 00:00</p>
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<p>[23:33] <tessier> audio streaming works great for me but loading websites often takes a number of tries</p>
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<p>[23:33] <Masterboy> i have an opinion that i2p runs very good after 6 hours of use in the 6th hour i used the irc </p>
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<p> for 7 hours and so my router was running for 13hours</p>
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<p>[23:33] <duck> (*hint*)</p>
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<p>[23:34] <hypercubus> duck: er... heheh</p>
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<p>[23:34] <hypercubus> i could fix that i guess</p>
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<p>[23:34] <hypercubus> do you have the logging set for daily?</p>
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<p>[23:34] <duck> hypercubus++</p>
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<p>[23:34] <hypercubus> log rotation that is</p>
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<p>[23:34] <duck> oh yes</p>
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<p>[23:34] <duck> duck--</p>
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<p>[23:34] <hypercubus> that's why</p>
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<p>[23:34] <Nightblade> I was at work all day and turned on my computer and started i2p and was on duck's irc server </p>
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<p> in just a few minutes</p>
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<p>[23:35] <duck> I have been seeing some weird DNFs</p>
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<p>[23:35] <duck> even when connecting to my own eepsites</p>
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<p>[23:35] <duck> (http://dev.i2p.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=74)</p>
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<p>[23:35] <duck> I think that is what causes most problems now</p>
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<p>[23:35] <hypercubus> bogoparser will only analyze uptimes that occur wholly within a single logfile... so if the </p>
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<p> logfile encompasses only 24 hours, nobody will show up as connected longer than 24 hours</p>
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<p>[23:35] <duck> Masterboy and ughabugha did also have it I think...</p>
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<p>[23:36] <Masterboy> yup</p>
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<p>[23:36] <duck> (fix it and you will win next weeks trophy for sure!)</p>
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<p>[23:37] <deer> <mihi> bogobot is excited? ;)</p>
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<p>[23:37] <Masterboy> i tried my web site and sometimes when i hit refresh it takes the other route? and i have to </p>
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<p> wait for it to load but i never wait;P i hit it again and it shows instantly</p>
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<p>[23:37] <deer> <mihi> oops, sry. forgot that this is gated...</p>
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<p>[23:38] <duck> Masterboy: do the timeouts take 61 seconds?</p>
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<p>[23:39] <duck> mihi: bogobot set to weekly rotations now</p>
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<p>[23:39] * mihi has quit IRC ("bye, and have a nice meeting")</p>
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<p>[23:40] <Masterboy> sorry i didn't check it on my web site when i can't reatch it instantly i just hit refresh </p>
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<p> and it loads instantly..</p>
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<p>[23:40] <duck> hm</p>
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<p>[23:40] <duck> well, it needs to be fixed</p>
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<p>[23:41] <duck> .... #4</p>
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<p>[23:41] <Masterboy> i think the route is given not the same eatch time</p>
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<p>[23:41] <duck> * 4) bounties</p>
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<p>[23:41] <duck> Masterboy: local connections should be cutted short</p>
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<p>[23:42] <duck> wilde had some bounty thoughts... you there?</p>
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<p>[23:42] <Masterboy> maybe it is a peer selection bug</p>
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<p>[23:42] <wilde> I'm not sure that was for the agenda really</p>
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<p>[23:42] <duck> oh</p>
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<p>[23:42] <wilde> ok but the thoughts were something like:</p>
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<p>[23:42] <Masterboy> i think then we go public the bounty system will work better</p>
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<p>[23:43] <Nightblade> masterboy: yes there are two tunnels for each connection, or that is how i understand it </p>
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<p> from reading the router.config</p>
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<p>[23:43] <wilde> we could use this month to do some small advertising of i2p and increase the bounty pool a bit</p>
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<p>[23:43] <Masterboy> i can see that the Mute project is going good - they got 600$ and they didn't code a lot yet;P</p>
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<p>[23:44] <wilde> target against freedom communities, crypto people, etc</p>
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<p>[23:44] <Nightblade> I don't think jrandom wants advertising</p>
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<p>[23:44] <wilde> not public slashdot attention, no</p>
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<p>[23:44] <hypercubus> that's what i've observed as well</p>
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<p>[23:44] <Masterboy> i want to push it again - when we go public the system will work a lot better;P</p>
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<p>[23:45] <wilde> Masterboy: bounties could speed up myi2p development for example</p>
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<p>[23:45] <Masterboy> and as jr said no public till 1.0 and only some attention after 0.4</p>
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<p>[23:45] <Masterboy> *wrote</p>
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<p>[23:45] <wilde> when we have like $500+ for a bounty people could actually survive for some weeks</p>
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<p>[23:46] <hypercubus> the tricky part is, even if we target a small dev community, like *cough* Mute devs, those </p>
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<p> guys might spread the word about i2p further than we'd like</p>
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<p>[23:46] <Nightblade> someone could make a career out of fixing i2p bugs</p>
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<p>[23:46] <hypercubus> and too soon</p>
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<p>[23:46] <wilde> i2p links are already in many public places</p>
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<p>[23:46] <Masterboy> you google and you can find i2p</p>
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<p>[23:47] <hypercubus> obscure public places ;-) (i saw the i2p link on a freesite... i'm lucky the damn freesite </p>
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<p> even loaded!)</p>
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<p>[23:47] <wilde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2p</p>
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<p>[23:47] <Masterboy> but i agree that no advertising till 0.4 is done</p>
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<p>[23:47] <Masterboy> wha???????</p>
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<p>[23:47] <wilde> http://www.ovmj.org/GNUnet/links.php3?xlang=English</p>
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<p>[23:48] <Masterboy> protol0l does a great job;P</p>
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<p>[23:48] <Masterboy> ;))))))</p>
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<p>[23:48] <hypercubus> nice typo ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:48] <wilde> ok anyway, I agree we should still keep I2P private (jr read this log ;)</p>
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<p>[23:49] <Masterboy> who did that?</p>
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<p>[23:49] <Masterboy> i think the Freenet crew discussion gave more attention..</p>
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<p>[23:50] <Masterboy> and jr discussing with toad give a lot info to the big public..</p>
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<p>[23:50] <Masterboy> so as in ughas wiki - we can all blame jr for that;P</p>
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<p>[23:50] <wilde> ok anyway, we'll see if we can bring in some $ without bringing in /.</p>
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<p>[23:50] <Masterboy> agreed</p>
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<p>[23:50] <hypercubus> the freenet dev list is hardly what i call the "big public" ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:50] <wilde> .</p>
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<p>[23:51] <hypercubus> wilde: you'll have a lot of $ sooner than you think ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:51] <wilde> oh come on, even my mum subscribe to freenet-devl</p>
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<p>[23:51] <duck> my mum reads through gmame</p>
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<p>[23:51] <deer> <clayboy> freenet-devl is being taught in schools here</p>
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<p>[23:52] <wilde> .</p>
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<p>[23:52] <Masterboy> so we will see more bounties after we go 0.4 stable..</p>
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<p>[23:53] <Masterboy> that is after 2 months;P</p>
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<p>[23:53] <wilde> where did that duck go?</p>
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<p>[23:53] <duck> thanks wilde </p>
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<p>[23:53] <hypercubus> though as the only bounty claimant thus far, i have to say that the bounty money had no </p>
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<p> bearing on my decision to take up the challenge</p>
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<p>[23:54] <wilde> hehe, it would if it been 100x</p>
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<p>[23:54] <duck> wyou are too good for the world</p>
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<p>[23:54] <Nightblade> haha</p>
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<p>[23:54] * duck moves to #5</p>
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<p>[23:54] <hypercubus> wilde, $100 doesn't mean shit to me ;-)</p>
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<p>[23:54] <duck> 100 * 10 = 1000</p>
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<p>[23:55] * duck pops("5 airhook")</p>
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<p>[23:55] <duck> tessier: got any real-world experience with it</p>
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<p>[23:55] <duck> (http://www.airhook.org/)</p>
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<p>[23:55] * Masterboy will try dis out:P</p>
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<p>[23:56] <duck> java implementation (dunno if it even works) http://cvs.ofb.net/airhook-j/</p>
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<p>[23:56] <duck> python implementation (a mess, did work in the past) http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/khashmir</p>
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<p> /khashmir/airhook.py</p>
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<p>[23:58] * duck opens the rant-valve</p>
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<p>[23:58] <Nightblade> j one is also gpl</p>
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<p>[23:58] <duck> port it to pubdomain</p>
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<p>[23:58] <hypercubus> amen</p>
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<p>[23:58] <Nightblade> the entire protocol doc is only about 3 pages - it can't be that hard</p>
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<p>[23:59] <Masterboy> nothing is hard</p>
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<p>[23:59] <Masterboy> it's just not easy</p>
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<p>[23:59] <duck> I dont think that it is fully specced though</p>
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<p>[23:59] * hypercubus takes away masterboy's fortune cookies</p>
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<p>[23:59] <duck> you might need to dive into the C code for a reference implementation</p>
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<p>[00:00] <Nightblade> I would do it myself but I am busy with other i2p stuff right now</p>
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<p>[00:00] <Nightblade> (and also my full-time job)</p>
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<p>[00:00] <hypercubus> duck: maybe a bounty for it?</p>
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<p>[00:00] <Nightblade> there already is</p>
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<p>[00:00] <Masterboy> ?</p>
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<p>[00:00] <Masterboy> ahh Pseudonyms</p>
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<p>[00:00] <duck> it could be used at 2 levels</p>
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<p>[00:00] <duck> 1) as a transport besides TCP</p>
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<p>[00:01] <duck> 2) as a protocol to handle datagrams inside i2cp/sam</p>
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<p>[00:01] <hypercubus> that's worth serious consideration then</p>
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<p>[00:01] <hypercubus> </obvious></p>
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<p>[00:02] <Nightblade> duck: i noticed that the repliable datagram in SAM has a maximum size of 31kb, whereas the </p>
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<p> stream has a maximum size of 32kb - making me think that the sender's destination is sent with each packet in </p>
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<p> repliable datagram mode, and only at the beginning for a stream mode -</p>
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<p>[00:02] <Masterboy> well airhook cvs is not very updated..</p>
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<p>[00:03] <Nightblade> making me think that it would be inefficient to make a protocol on top of the repliable </p>
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<p> datagrams through sam</p>
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<p>[00:03] <duck> airhooks message size is 256 bytes, i2cp's is 32kb, so you need to atleast change a bit</p>
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<p>[00:04] <Nightblade> actually if you wanted to do the protocol in SAM you could just use the anoymous datagram </p>
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<p> and have the first packet contain the sender's destination.... blah blah blah - i have lots of ideas but not </p>
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<p> enough time to code them</p>
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<p>[00:06] <duck> then again you have to problems to verify signatures</p>
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<p>[00:06] <duck> so someone could send fake packages to you</p>
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<p>[00:06] <Masterboy> topic:::: SAM</p>
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<p>[00:06] <Masterboy> ;P</p>
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<p>[00:07] <Nightblade> true</p>
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<p>[00:08] <Nightblade> but if you sent back to that destination and there was no acknowledgement you'd know it was </p>
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<p> a faker</p>
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<p>[00:08] <Nightblade> there woudl have to be a handshake</p>
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<p>[00:08] <duck> but you'll need aapplication level handshakes for that</p>
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<p>[00:08] <Nightblade> no not really</p>
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<p>[00:09] <Nightblade> just put it in a library for accessing SAM</p>
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<p>[00:09] <Nightblade> that is a bad way of doing though</p>
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<p>[00:09] <Nightblade> doing it though</p>
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<p>[00:09] <duck> you could also use seperated tunnels</p>
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<p>[00:09] <Nightblade> it shuold be in the streaming lib</p>
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<p>[00:11] <duck> yup. makes sense</p>
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<p>[00:12] <duck> ok</p>
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<p>[00:12] <duck> I am feeling *baff*-y</p>
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<p>[00:13] <Nightblade> ja</p>
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<p>[00:13] * duck *baffs*</p>
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</div>
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{% endblock %} |