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2009-03-01 05:05:18 +00:00

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{% block title %}I2P Development Meeting 9{% endblock %}
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<h3>I2P (invisiblenet) Development Meeting 9</h3>
<div class="irclog">
Courtesy of <a href="http://www.archive.org/">the wayback machine</a>.
<p>
<p>--- Log opened Wed Aug 21 00:58:22 2002
<p>00:58 &lt;@mids&gt; test
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; Hi folk(s)
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; nop & userx wont be here, and I dont have much to say
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; so lets just have an informal chit chat
<p>01:00 &lt;@mids&gt; with lots of questions and user feedback (yeah)
<p>01:01 -!- mids changed the topic of #iip-dev to: No formal meeting, but be welcome and chat. logs: http://mids.student.utwente.nl/~mids/iip/
<p>01:02 &lt;@mids&gt; on the freenet-devl mailinglist there has been a discussion about leaving OPN (irc.openprojects.net) and some suggested that IIP could be an alternative
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; Ian Clarke countered that IIP isn't subjected to any peer review by experts
<p>01:03 &lt;@mids&gt; and that it might be dangerous to think that this network is anonymous
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; he has a good point there, currently we are beeing reviewed by some guys, only info that I have is this url:
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; http://www.cypherpunks.to/ip/
<p>01:04 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:05 &lt;@mids&gt; I hope that everybody realizes that IIP isn't bugfree, and that the anonimity factor can be quite relative
<p>01:06 &lt;@mids&gt; but this shouldn't stop us from using it, catching bugs and making improvements
<p>01:06 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:06 &lt; thecrypto&gt; true anomimity is possible, it's just really hard
<p>01:07 &lt; hobbs&gt; no, actually, I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. true anonymity is impossible, but you can make it "really hard" for whoever wants to find out.
<p>01:08 &lt; hobbs&gt; off to eat. be back asap. :)
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; appart from the cryptography algorithms, IIP does depend on the amount of public relays to 'hide' the users. with only a few it can be relativly easy for big organisations with lots of power to systimatically track every user down
<p>01:08 &lt;@mids&gt; thanks for dropping by hobbs
<p>01:08 &lt; thecrypto&gt; chaum proved it in his paper on dining cryptographer's, however setting up a DC-net for this would be a huge feat
<p>01:09 &lt;@mids&gt; but what if all philosophers but 1 are working together?
<p>01:10 &lt; thecrypto&gt; yes, that is a weakness there
<p>01:10 &lt;@mids&gt; so, we need more public relays and more peer reviews :)
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; if you happen to be a security / cryptography expert, dont hesitate to examine IIP
<p>01:11 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; I have taken a look at SILC (http://www.silcnet.org)
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; it is a chat client and server system with embedded cryptography
<p>01:12 &lt;@mids&gt; you can put keys on channels and private conversations
<p>01:13 &lt; thecrypto&gt; i'm not an expert, just a student who reads alot about this topic :)
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; it cant be compared with IIP, since it doesn't offer (an attempt) to anonymity
<p>01:13 &lt;@mids&gt; but it is quite interesting, maybe you (readers of the logfile) should take a look at it
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; I have been trying to run it over IIP, so you will get both channel crypto and anonymity
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; but I had little problems setting up the network for IIP version 1.1
<p>01:14 &lt;@mids&gt; once nop / userx respond with some hints how to do it, I'll put a test server behind IIP... as a proof of concept
<p>01:15 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:15 * mids throws the mike in the audience
<p>01:18 &lt; thecrypto&gt; doesn't IIP already have end-to-end encryption?
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; server-end
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; the server is a patched ircd, and gets all the text plaintext from the server-side IIP node
<p>01:18 &lt;@mids&gt; so an Evil Serveradmin could log all the private and channel conversations
<p>01:19 &lt;@mids&gt; (after patching the source ofcourse)
<p>01:20 &lt;@mids&gt; but he (or she) wont get are the IP addresses of users
<p>01:20 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:20 &lt; thecrypto&gt; ahh, the evil admin problem. why can't we put in encryption to the server?
<p>01:21 &lt;@mids&gt; because then you either have to put irc protocol level code in the local IIP nodes or use special irc clients
<p>01:21 &lt;@mids&gt; the aim for IIP has been (so far) to work with normal irc clients, and I expect that it will be that way in the (near) future
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; an aim is making a VIRCD (virtual irc daemon) in each IIP client relay which handles the channel / user crypto
<p>01:22 &lt; thecrypto&gt; so it's on the TODO list but not there yet
<p>01:22 &lt;@mids&gt; exactly
<p>01:23 &lt;@mids&gt; ellison informed me that he has a demo of the new IIP and InvisibleNet website available
<p>01:24 &lt;@mids&gt; it will cooked into HTML in a couple of minutes
<p>01:24 &lt; agril&gt; Why doesn't /lusers work anymore?
<p>01:25 &lt;@mids&gt; all /stats commands (I don't know if /lusers uses that, or if it is a native ircd command) have been disabled in the ircd
<p>01:25 &lt;@mids&gt; so we dont know how many clients or hidden channels there are
<p>01:26 &lt;@mids&gt; that is probably better... for evildoers it would be harder to measure the outcome of their flood/ddos attempts
<p>01:27 &lt;@mids&gt; but I have to admit that I miss the nice network graphs that could be created using those stats :(
<p>01:30 &lt;@mids&gt; (ellison is uploading the site right now)
<p>01:31 &lt;@mids&gt; http://www.citystateinc.com/ellison/invisiblenet/
<p>01:31 &lt;@mids&gt; hurray!
<p>01:31 &lt; thecrypto&gt; is there an offical TODO list anywhere?
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; I know that some subprojects have TODO lists... but the main project, I dont know
<p>01:32 &lt;@mids&gt; but I am sure that userx/nop have their own list
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; http://help.invisiblenet.net/ chapter 1 - future plans
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; that contains a few far away aims
<p>01:33 &lt;@mids&gt; Neo: http://www.citystateinc.com/ellison/invisiblenet/
<p>01:33 &lt; Neo&gt; tanks
<p>01:35 &lt;@mids&gt; any comments about the website?
<p>01:36 &lt; Neo&gt; Oh, nope.
<p>01:36 &lt; Neo&gt; Its looking great.
<p>01:36 &lt; Neo&gt; iip section is just so much better than what was before.
<p>01:37 &lt;@mids&gt; I totally agree
<p>01:37 &lt; Neo&gt; Download, Screenshots, Documentation, Development, Contact. Good flow.
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; it looks very consistent and easily adaptable
<p>01:39 &lt; thecrypto&gt; good site
<p>01:39 &lt;@mids&gt; any important section missing? (in the menu)
<p>01:42 &lt;@mids&gt; I think we have it all covered
<p>01:43 &lt; pox&gt; looks good
<p>01:43 &lt;@mids&gt; under Contact there will also be a list of all the PGP keys of developers and contributors
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; last point about the site: ellison will be done soon, then he'll ship it to me and nop and we will fill in the pieces
<p>01:45 &lt;@mids&gt; I guess that I will make some includes using php so that information can be updated easily
<p>01:46 * mids thinks we will have this cool website Real Soon!!!
<p>01:46 &lt;@mids&gt; .
<p>01:47 &lt; thecrypto&gt; a good website is the sign of a good project :)
<p>01:47 &lt; Neo&gt; Great stuff.
<p>01:48 &lt;@mids&gt; That was iip-dev radio with your host mids, feel free to hang around with your questions & comments
<p>01:49 &lt; hobbs&gt; wow. that's pretty.
<p>--- Log closed Wed Aug 21 01:55:36 2002
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